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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck777 View Post
    People would not entertain the thought of going to China for models if they felt GW was giving them a fair shake. I would never buy from China but I fully understand why many devoted fans are doing so.
    Sadly not true. As I have pointed out, the pirates could undercut GW even if they sold at cost, so the pirates will always be cheaper and there will still be people willing to buy from them. And my Radiohead example shows people will pirate something even when it is free. Less people might buy from the pirates if GW reduced prices, but there would alwys be some willing to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck777 View Post
    The recording industry had the same attitude about MP3s - no one will want digital versions of their songs, CD's are the bee's knees. The same thing will be true once 3-D printing really takes off. You think its immoral for a company in China to make knock off GW models, wait until your neighbors are creating whole armies for virtually nothing.
    There is a clear difference. 3D printers are way more expensive than MP3 players were, not to mention the size and convience difference. There is also the customer demand. People are not clamouring in significant numbers for 3d printers in their home, not least beacuse there is little use the average perso has for one at the moment. Until they reduce in cost and size and the technology improves to increase their usefulness, they will not take off in anything like the same way as MP3 players.
    Chief Educator of the Horsemen of Derailment "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." SOREN KIERKEGAARD

  2. #122
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    Wow, that was a quick turnaround. A couple pages ago, a certain group of posters were flaming left and right (hah, pun) with inflammatory political comments. Now it's actually a discussion.


    Do Western governments not promote and bolster their own businesses and industries over foreign ones historically?

    Indeed they do, but they generally intevene, or at least offer a method of legal resolution, when one company nicks anothers stuff.
    It's also worth noting that most governments promote their own business and industries over foreign ones. It's not like it's a uniquely western thing. And western nations do tend to have the most developed protection for workers rights and environmental laws and the like, which is part of why eastern nations can compete for work.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzyguy View Post
    Do Western governments not promote and bolster their own businesses and industries over foreign ones historically?
    Find me a single government - Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, or Lunar - that doesn't do this, and I'll eat my hat.

  4. #124
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    There are probably one or two dictatorships in recent history with some weird situation where the ruling party might enact some odd business policies to that effect, probably somewhere in the middle east.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck777 View Post
    The recording industry subsidizes all the failures and botched one hit wonders by milking the successful artists, who comprise a very tiny percentage of the total number of artists.



    That's the conundrum. Do you want to be a star, with your name in lights and throngs of fans or do you want to own your own work and play at local birthday parties? Having standards and values often means you loose out on what the Devil has to offer.



    Chapterhouse sells additional pieces to help flesh out your army. its one thing to create a new shoulder pad or weapon, quite another to create an Ork Boy or a Tyranid Termagant.
    Thanks for the explanations, I understand more. I forgot Chapterhouse doesn't sell SM but only should pads for example basically add ons.

    I didn't know this Chinese company sold actual minis.
    What is the most important rule? That we should do whatever the hell we want, but preferably in the best interests of Games workshop when possible? :P Ill go with that

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildeybeast View Post
    Sadly not true. As I have pointed out, the pirates could undercut GW even if they sold at cost, so the pirates will always be cheaper and there will still be people willing to buy from them. And my Radiohead example shows people will pirate something even when it is free. Less people might buy from the pirates if GW reduced prices, but there would alwys be some willing to do so.
    There's a difference between fair shake and undercutting the pirates. GW, nor any company, will be able to beat the pirates in terms of cost but if GW offers their products at more reasonable prices, people will be far more inclined to purchase real models rather than not purchase all together or buy other companies models (knockoff or not).[URL="http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/how-valve-devalued-video-games-and-why-thats-good-news-for-developers-and-p"] This article showcases[/URL] how deeply discounted sales in digital gaming have proven to be orders of magnitude more profitable than continuing to sell games at their normal, high rate. Obviously this cannot be completely applied to GW since none of their products are digital but it does showcase how sales can greatly increase total profit. If GW were to do something like this on a semi-regular basis, then it would go a long way in eliminating GW's problems with competitors (both legitimate and not).

    No one with a sound mind wants their products free but by the same token, no one with a sound mind wants to feel cheated and abused by companies.




    Quote Originally Posted by Wildeybeast View Post
    There is a clear difference. 3D printers are way more expensive than MP3 players were, not to mention the size and convience difference. There is also the customer demand. People are not clamouring in significant numbers for 3d printers in their home, not least beacuse there is little use the average perso has for one at the moment. Until they reduce in cost and size and the technology improves to increase their usefulness, they will not take off in anything like the same way as MP3 players.
    We're not at the stage where MP3's really took off with Winamp and Napster. Right now, we're still in the equivalent of the early 90's when MP3s were first being created and just beginning to be noticed by the public. We're a long way away from cheap mass market 3-D printers, though some are even as low as 500 dollars. 3-D Printing will change how people purchase items. I could go to a bitz shop and buy that autocannon, or I could scan the bit and print multiple copies for myself.

    Look at this picture. The first gargoyle is the original, the second a digital scan and the third a 3D Printed Gargoyle.



    Sure the Printed Gargoyle is not of the same quality but it is close enough to be passable, more so once it is painted. In ten years time, they will be able to make darn near exact duplicates. Eventually 3-D Printers are going to shut down a lot of businesses simply by virtue of the unskilled consumer being empowered to make his own products. I'm sure there will be hordes of websites dedicated to both selling and sharing templates that the Printer can use to create items for you. It will become a big deal once the technology is refined. But that day is not today.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildeybeast View Post
    Sadly not true. As I have pointed out, the pirates could undercut GW even if they sold at cost, so the pirates will always be cheaper and there will still be people willing to buy from them. And my Radiohead example shows people will pirate something even when it is free. Less people might buy from the pirates if GW reduced prices, but there would alwys be some willing to do so. They might not go out of business but you'd be hard to find business as a pirate if GW was selling at a reasonable cost, now if they were selling at cost, the pirates would go out of business because it still takes resources to manufacture knock offs and and theres only so low you can go when that's true, so the difference in price between GW and the pirates would be nill or at least not more than the difference in shipping from that far away. Think about it wildeybeast, the pirates have to make money too to stay in business not something they can do when selling at near cost. But then again GW would go under selling at cost as well.




    There is a clear difference. 3D printers are way more expensive than MP3 players were, not to mention the size and convience difference. There is also the customer demand. People are not clamouring in significant numbers for 3d printers in their home, not least beacuse there is little use the average perso has for one at the moment. Until they reduce in cost and size and the technology improves to increase their usefulness, they will not take off in anything like the same way as MP3 players.
    This will change over time wildeybest, accept it or not, your opinion is that of the uninformed and the willfully in denial on this subject and wholly inconsequential.
    Last edited by gendoikari87; 04-30-2012 at 06:14 PM.
    "But I tell you, we were gods once, and we shall be gods again". - In defense of the future: a Logical Discourse.

  8. #128
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    Here's another article on the decreasing price of video games: [url]http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/why-end-60-video-game-near-181412574.html[/url]

    Something to keep in mind is that markets tend to find equilibrium. As technology changes aspects of the market, the market itself either adapts or collapses. Without people creating IP stuff, no one can pirate that stuff, and if the people creating the IP stuff have an unsustainable business model, competitors and pirating will undercut them until the market adapts. So long as GW doesn't actually go under, then all these changes are probably good things for us consumers. GW's been uncontested for a long time, and if something upsets that then GW will have to find a way to convince people to keep buying their stuff.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  9. #129
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    Oh China's government is far from innocent of crimes against humanity. Generally speaking though, there is a reason why communist and socialist regimes stick around longer in societies with collectivist cultural tendencies. What I was getting at was that there is a certain amount of protectionism and poor attempts at isolationism while still trying to attempt to reap the benefits of global economies and trade. Chinese government generally mistrusts western governments, there is more than just the good interest rates motivating the Chinese government to purchase US Treasury Bonds. This is all likely to change as well with the older generations eventually passing the reigns of leadership on to the next generation who wishes to continue to grow in to a bustling middle class.

    The counter point and reason I mentioned the western countries protecting their own business interests was that China is not unique in it's desire to promote and protect its own industries. Arguably they are more likely to do this since those industries and businesses are state sponsored. The argument could possibly be made that in the US the lobbying power of multi-nationals has had negative effects on US businesses and industry, but it isn't any official policy and those effects ebb and flow with the political tides every 4-8 years.

    Russian and Eastern European "piracy" is pretty huge as well. Those nations don't have the sheer manufacturing power that China does though so aren't usually as prominently mentioned in those regards. Within miniature wargaming though they do produce quite a few counterfeit models with some possessing state governments that don't work with western nations to directly curtail counterfeit production. Arguably many of the Russian and Eastern European counterfeiters are more malicious than the Chinese since the Chinese government has in the law that reproductions of goods must be labeled as such which is actually pretty consistent with the notion that China is collectivist.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    Illegal where? in China? nope they are legally allowed to do that if they acknowledge that the parts are a copy?

    immoral? Whose morality? GW's? Modern Business ethics? ethics in business are not a one way street despite what many companies would like you to think.

    China falling in 20 years FROM AN AMERICAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hows that health care going.

    Hows that 15 trillion going? Deficit you self righteous hypocritical brainwashed hacks wouldn't understand the meaning of the word.

    [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html[/url]

    as for prison labour....DUH so does the US mate.
    We do not use Prison Labor for Private enterprise like China at all DUDE. and the Communist Party will collapse on itself in 20 years and our deficit is nothing once we bounce the Moron in the White House. Health Care is best n the world

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