GW IPhammer reaches China?

[xllrapidllx]

I'm not really interested in the ethics or morals of this debate.

But if getting cheaper forgeworld models is making me happy, then I'll continue to do just that.


Does anyone know the name of the new company ?


Many thanks

[Wildeybeast]

Find me a single government - Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, or Lunar - that doesn't do this, and I'll eat my hat.

There are probably one or two dictatorships in recent history with some weird situation where the ruling party might enact some odd business policies to that effect, probably somewhere in the middle east.

Zimbabwe. They took farms off the successful white farmers (beacuse they were white) and gave them to Mugabe's cronies who had no clue about farming. Result, one of the few economically successful countries in Africa now faces starvation and an inflation rate so astronomical that they have to reissue the currency evey 6 months or so.

Get hat eating paladin

They might not go out of business but you'd be hard to find business as a pirate if GW was selling at a reasonable cost, now if they were selling at cost, the pirates would go out of business because it still takes resources to manufacture knock offs and and theres only so low you can go when that's true, so the difference in price between GW and the pirates would be nill or at least not more than the difference in shipping from that far away. Think about it wildeybeast, the pirates have to make money too to stay in business not something they can do when selling at near cost. But then again GW would go under selling at cost as well.

This will change over time wildeybest, accept it or not, your opinion is that of the uninformed and the willfully in denial on this subject and wholly inconsequential.

Ah, there are the personal insults, I wondered when they would come back. To clarify, pirates costs will always be cheaper than GW's since they are not investing time and money in people designing the stuff in the first place, the wages they do pay will be far lower, they are using inferior (cheaper) materials and things like employee welfare will be non existent menaign they can undercut. Secondly I was not suggesting that GW would or should sell at cost, merely pointing out that even if GW did lower their prices this much, the pirates would still undercut so the argument that reducing prices will get rid of pirates holds no water. And again I use the Radiohead example to point out that people wil pirate stuff even when it is free ( I really wish someone would bother to read that) so cost is not the reason why some people choose to support piracy. Use it to justify your own actions if you wish, but you must acknowledge that piracy will not disappear if GW lowers prices and that it is damaging to the hobby and the honest people it employs.

Eldargal,

Have you ever argued with a child? If not...now you have. No matter what you say. No matter what logic you bring to the table. It doesn't matter. It will change nothing. They feel they have been wronged. Reality doesn't figure into the equation.

You can point out how their own import infrastructure is to blame. You can point out the very basic creation rationale behind IP. You can listen respectfully to the self serving tantrums that they try to pass off as rational arguments. When you see individuals with fully functioning brains argue the amorality of corporations while accusing GW of immorality then there is only one conclusion.

All for naught.

I spend my day doing this for a job, why do I come home and do it for fun?

If buying knock off models from China is immoral, then so too is buying Mantic models or other proxies for use in GW games. By not buying GW models, you are putting GW out of business. Those companies are "stealing" customers away with cheaper models that differ very little in theme or function from their source material. Buying Mantic models means you are hurting GW, which means people WILL loose their jobs. Just because Mantic puts a bit of effort into redesigning the wheel does not make them any less guilty of the same crime as the Chinese knock off artists. Now granted the Chinese are more guilty than Mantic in this regard but that does not absolve Mantic (or other companies who create proxy models for use in GW games).

Nonsense. GW can compete with other companies and they are not 'stealing' customers form each other. Firstly people are not property and cannot be stolen (nowadays). Secondly, mantic is not stealing beacuse it is not taking GW's property. If you want to start a seperate thread about whether making proxy models is valid business practice, fine, but it is nowhere near the same thing as piracy.

Once again, I am going to state that this is not an issue of immorality. Morality is relative to a given culture. Look at genital mutilation. In America, when performed on a baby boy it is seen as a perfectly acceptable surgery. When performed on a girl, such acts are deemed disgusting and unwarranted. However, in middle eastern societies, Female genital mutilation is widely regarded as the norm. Which culture is right? If female genital mutilation a positive or a negative, is it right or wrong? From one culture it is normal, to the other it is anathema.

A poor and insensitive analogy. Male gential 'mutilation' ( I assume you mean circumcision) is not harmful and it is sometimes medically useful/necessary. Female genital mutilation is never necessary and is frequently harmful and painful. That is why it is deemed as "disgusting and unwarranted". And if you don't want to the do morality argument, I again offer the argument that piracy is damaging to the hobby and if supported by enough people will put the business that design our models and games out of business which means no more hobby.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm not really interested in the ethics or morals of this debate.

But if getting cheaper forgeworld models is making me happy, then I'll continue to do just that.


Does anyone know the name of the new company ?


Many thanks

If I told you I'd buy you all the FW models you want for the rest of your life if you molested a child would you still say that?

Have you made this account just to troll?

[xllrapidllx]

If I told you I'd buy you all the FW models you want for the rest of your life if you molested a child would you still say that?

Have you made this account just to troll?

Your argument is invalid... Unless you are a child molester.

There is no pleasure in doing that, whilst getting something cheaper is very pleasurable.

People will always go for the cheaper options, because it's human nature to choose the cheaper option.

If you have two models, both the same yet one is cheaper you'll choose that one.

If you enjoy paying over the top prices, then congrats to you.

[Wildeybeast]

It is a valid point since you clearly stated you had no interest in moral arguments so long as you got cheaper models. However I take your point that I phrased it wrongly. How about I just drive down to Warhamemr World, steal everything I can fit in my car and give it all to you? It's free for you, you get what you enjoy and don't have to do anything you don't enjoy. Still not bothered about the morality of where your models come from?

[DrLove42]

So if tomorrow GW announced they were going to start selling all their models half prive, but the quality would be bad, the materials poorer quality, the customer service/returns non existant AND thye werent going to make any new sculpts, just copy other companies models you be fi.e with that?

[the jeske]

what would be all good and nice , if the models actualy were poor quality . remember a lot of the "pirate" chines stuff is producted by the same companies or using the same machines as the legal ones .

Then we attempted a social engineering experiment by forcing democracy on a Middle Eastern nation. Some say that this was the precursor to the Arab Spring movement, but...some say a lot of things that aren't necessarily true.

arab spring bringing more democratic parties to power [looks at the broother hood , dudes in libya ] . yes of course . because shariat is like totaly democratic .
I remember Iraq from the time of the Iraq/Iran war . Awesome place to work and live . dollar worth less then dinar .Everything you want you can buy[<= Russian. you dont know what it is to stand in the line for 2 hours and buy nothing] . Sure if you opposed
Sadams rule you get eliminated . But I would like to see a country where it is different. There were no religion based wars. Keeping the peace by elimination of terror groups like kurds . and it was done proper not like western guys . It was done proper with elimination of base of support . An insurgent can be hunted in the mountains for years . But burn his home in the vally . Kill his family [supporting terrorist is illegal] burn the fields and what happens ? no terror .

[ElectricPaladin]

Zimbabwe. They took farms off the successful white farmers (beacuse they were white) and gave them to Mugabe's cronies who had no clue about farming. Result, one of the few economically successful countries in Africa now faces starvation and an inflation rate so astronomical that they have to reissue the currency evey 6 months or so.

Get hat eating paladin

I think my hat is safe.

This isn't an example of a country failing to protect its economic interests - this is an example of a country doing it really badly. Consider that giving farms to the cronies was done in the interests of keeping the cronies loyal, which prevents them from undermining the regime, which prevents political collapse, which goes hand in hand with further economic collapse. This is not to say that the decision was a "good" one, or that they knew what they were getting into and decided to weather the economic consequences in order to avoid worse political ones. I'm just saying that poorly managing your means of production and distribution is not the same thing as being some theoretical nice-guy state that doesn't even try to protect its own economic interests.

[DrLove42]

I remember Iraq from the time of the Iraq/Iran war . Awesome place to work and live . dollar worth less then dinar .Everything you want you can buy[<= Russian. you dont know what it is to stand in the line for 2 hours and buy nothing] . Sure if you opposed Sadams rule you get eliminated . But I would like to see a country where it is different. There were no religion based wars. Keeping the peace by elimination of terror groups like kurds . and it was done proper not like western guys . It was done proper with elimination of base of support . An insurgent can be hunted in the mountains for years . But burn his home in the vally . Kill his family [supporting terrorist is illegal] burn the fields and what happens ? no terror .

CAn't tell if terrible troll or blithering idiot.

You think;

- You compare them to fall fall Soviet russia and think its good
- You think a country where everything is fine, unless you say you don't like the leader, in which case you get killed is good
- Gassing 10s of 1000s of innocent people was a good thing (get your facts right. 99% of the kurds are a peaceful problem. Saddams elimation of them wasn't terro based,it was no better than Hitler on the Jews)
-You suggest murdering innocent people to stop one person is a good thing as well?

To move your views into say America would be;

- If you say you don't like the President the secret service turn up at your house and put a bullet in your head in front off your family (when the Chinese government used to do this, they even charged the family for the cost of the bullet)
- Saying a terrorist is a muslim right? So lets just kill every muslim in the country! That'll stop the problem!
- Also theres a lot of these Latin American Peop)le around here. I don't like the colour of their skin. So lets test our chemical weapons on their villages!

(FYI NONE OF THIS IS MY OPINION -Just trying to prove how disgusting a point he's trying to make

[ElectricPaladin]

CAn't tell if terrible troll or blithering idiot.

Why can't he be both?