GW IPhammer reaches China?

[faolan]

Eldar, I don't claim that it was "right" of me to do it. I would argue it was less wrong than it could have been, but no, I'd never argue it was ethically correct.

You are, of course, completely correct that it was an improper/"bad" action.

[Wildeybeast]

Eldar, I don't claim that it was "right" of me to do it. I would argue it was less wrong than it could have been, but no, I'd never argue it was ethically correct.

You are, of course, completely correct that it was an improper/"bad" action.

So why did you do it and why are trying to justify it?

[faolan]

I did it because he offered some interesting looking products at a reasonable price, and I really didn't care about GW's bottom line.

I'm not trying to justify it, I long ago figured out I didn't have to justify myself to the internet, especially over something as minor as this - because, let's face it, while it's not a good action, there's far worse evils in the world to worry about, and I never claimed I was Lawful Good in real life.

I wouldn't encourage other people to do it, to shop here or at other questionable places.

I'm not entirely sure I buy your argument that it's ALL morally bankrupt, but that's another philosophical discussion in general. After all, every time you make a press cast or your own conversion or sculpt your own to use in place of an item from *any company* that argument could be made (not that I'd buy into that either).

[gendoikari87]

But the fact remains you are giving money to criminals, and while it is ridiculous what GW charges in Australia these sorts of groups don't just rip off 'bad' companies. I had a friend whose small business went broke because a company in China started copying her products. They were inferior quality, but cheaper, so people bought them. Result, one less business paying tax and eight people out of work. Support one and you might as well support them all, it is still morally bankrupt.

well if you're in australia i won't blame you for using these guys, what GW does to the australians is criminal.

And yes, if I can find the site, I'll use them. Is it right? No. But GW's prices are too high, if they want people to be loyal to them, bring your prices down.

[eldargal]

But making something yourself takes skill and effort, it isn't putting money in the pockets of people who just steal from other people.

You think it is minor, but it isn't. What is a few dollars to a bunch of Chinese criminals? Problem is more people start thinking like that, more people start buying from them, more genuine businesses lose customers, more businesses fail, more people out of work. You may think it is small, but you are a small piece of a problem that destroys companies large and small and puts hard-working people out of work. You may think I'm being hyperbolic, but look at the figures, IP theft and knock-offs costs companes billions upon billions of pounds every year.

If you don't want to pay GW AUS prices (and who would) then buy from overseas companies, there are still some that ship to the antipodes. Or buy on eBay, quite a few places offering stuff at a discount on UK/EU RRP. But please don't give money to criminals.

I'm not trying to be rude, and I'm not saying you are a bad person, but in this case you are doing a bad thing. It's jsut easy to pretend you aren't hurting anyone because you're so divorced from the people it impacts.

[Verilance]

well if you're in australia i won't blame you for using these guys, what GW does to the australians is criminal.

And yes, if I can find the site, I'll use them. Is it right? No. But GW's prices are too high, if they want people to be loyal to them, bring your prices down.

The minimum wage in Australia is about double the minimum wage in the US so the fact that they pay more for things shouldn't be surprising or unacceptable. that is the way things work.

[gendoikari87]

I'm not trying to be rude, and I'm not saying you are a bad person, but in this case you are doing a bad thing. It's jsut easy to pretend you aren't hurting anyone because you're so divorced from the people it impacts.

I don't really care if I'm hurting GW, in fact I REALLY hope I am by buying from these people. GW's prices are way too high and they need to be punished for that behavior. Does that make buying from pirates right? No, but I don't care, I do not shed tears for corporations, they aren't people, they don't feel pain, and they have no soul. So again, here the ball is in GW's court, they want loyalty and to not loose business, lower prices. That's capitalism.

[eldargal]

If you want to punish GW, don't buy from them.

The fact that tou would rather give money to criminals and then HOPE you are helping put people out of work (GW employs three thousand plus) makes me think that you are at best woefully immature and at worst, genuinely immoral.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't really care if I'm hurting GW, in fact I REALLY hope I am by buying from these people. GW's prices are way too high and they need to be punished for that behavior. Does that make buying from pirates right? No, but I don't care, I do not shed tears for corporations, they aren't people, they don't feel pain, and they have no soul. So again, here the ball is in GW's court, they want loyalty and to not loose business, lower prices. That's capitalism.

What a stupid argument. By buying from pirates, you are taking business away from GW, which will only lead to further price increases as they try to make up for the losses. Worse case scenario, GW gets forced out of business because everyone buys from pirates, suddenly pirates have nothing left to copy and the hobby dies. Ethics aside, piracy is very damaging to the hobby, supporting it is a selfish and short sighted decision.

Also to suggest that GW needs to please you for you to demonstrate loyalty is to utterly fail to grasp the concept of loyalty. Loyalty is not conditional upon what someone does for you, it is sticking with them through thick and thin.

[Rapture]

Hmm. While I don't condone any illegal activity, I will drop some support on the "that's capitalism" argument.

GW is a company that can charge whatever they want for their product. When that price gets too high (the profits becoming disproportionate to the reasonable costs of production), consumers will lash out at or abandon the company. GW will, if the trend continues to the point where it damages their profits, eventually be forced to modify something about how they do business in order to minimize the incentive to obtain their product through illegal activity.

This is just like the constant back and forth between the music industry and illegal downloaders. Nothing will be destroyed in the long run, but there will be refocusing on the product and what consumers are willing to pay.

I will also have to take a second to bash the idea of corporate loyalty - it is stupid nonsense. GW produces a game that people love, but they are a publicly owned business willing to bleed whatever profits they can out of their customers - just like any other business. The producer-consumer relationship is one that is balanced out by the selfish actions of both parties. This is how capitalism works and both sides get the best reasonable benefit from the relationship.

The minute anything other than personal goals infect the producer-consumer relationship, one sides loses. This is especially true when the relationship shifts in favor of the produce as it has mush more to lase and gain from the relationship. You can never trust someone with stock options.