GW IPhammer reaches China?

[DrLove42]

OK...assumption is definently the mother of all mistakes. IN your above post ^^ the 2 top quote boxes "the EDL" and "means supports the ends" weren't aimed at you, they were aimed at "The Jeske".

None of your comments (haven't read your big post up above yet though :P) show you as being anything other than a well reasoned individual, even if you don't agree with me (but hey you need 2 sides to have a debate!)

A lot of people have this "idealised" version of china in their head of Samurai, the ancient art and culture, the dragons and chinese new year....you know the stuff you see in all of the films. But in reality its a rapidly industrialising country, with huge issues that people overlook

Take this political dissident on the news today. He's a human rights campaigner, who hasn't done anything violent. The chinese government threatened to kill his wife and children if he didn't surrender back to them.

And theres a bit of a difference in the "torture" that the US does and the "torture" that China and middle eastern countries commit

[Wildeybeast]

no, it's a sign that your too thick headed to be reasoned with so, i opt to piss you off instead, which BTW you still haven't gotten the point if your talking about "justifying piracy" the point is not to justify it at all.

What a shame it isn't working, all you are doing is confirming my view that you lack the ability to construct a sensible argument

Doesn't everyone do this for the codexes they don't play with?

No because not everyone thinks that stealing stuff is ok.

And this just goes to confirm what I said earlier, you're a cretinous loon. Either that or you are twelve and are basing your knowledge of government ethics on playing Civlization V.

My favourite bit is where he accuses you killing Osama Bin Laden.

why not , it is legal . besides didnt you like off osama lately ?

Eldargal, moonlighting as US Navy Seal are you now? You should have probably kept that bit quieter!

[plawolf]

OK...assumption is definently the mother of all mistakes. IN your above post ^^ the 2 top quote boxes "the EDL" and "means supports the ends" weren't aimed at you, they were aimed at "The Jeske".

Well looks like I made that point rather better than even I intended or realized. My bad there.

None of your comments (haven't read your big post up above yet though :P) show you as being anything other than a well reasoned individual, even if you don't agree with me (but hey you need 2 sides to have a debate!)

A lot of people have this "idealised" version of china in their head of Samurai, the ancient art and culture, the dragons and chinese new year....you know the stuff you see in all of the films. But in reality its a rapidly industrialising country, with huge issues that people overlook

Samurai is actually Japanese.

It also seems like you and I have been looking at pretty different sources of news if your impression of China is one of an ancient fluffy utopian paradise and the press under-reports their problems and issues.

Whereas the view I got from reading the news is a country with all sorts of social, political and environmental problems that the press loves to bring up, even when it seems totally irrelevant to the story, and the populist western view of China is one where the Chinese government has done nothing good, the Chinese people hate it and the world would be a better place if it was gone, a view echoed by several members in this thread already.

If you have never been to China, you might be pretty shocked at what the average Chinese person on the street knows and thinks.

They know better than the average western citizen about the mistakes of their government and the extent of their freedoms. Yet they also acknowledge the accomplishments and all the good their government has done and all the freedoms they have gained over the years.

China still have a long way to go, but it has come a long way already, and the Chinese government is nowhere near as despised or bad for China as we in the west are told by the media and dissidents.

It is tempting and easy to paint China as the 'bad guys' and blame them for all the world's ills.It is certainly far easier and more convenient than to face up to own own mistakes and failings and summon the strength to make the hard choices and difficult changes needed to address them.

The problem is that China is a rising power, and far more of it's people like and support it's government than we in the west would believe (it's a lot more complicated than that, but I am trying to keep this brief), and all this blithering China-bashing in the west is doing serious damage to the west's image in the eyes of the Chinese people. And the Chinese have long memories.

It seems a little far fetched, but I can already see a noticeable shift in the view a lot of Chinese hold towards the west compared to as late as the 90s, and that shift is definitely not a positive one, and who could be surprised? Would we feel more or less inclined to sympathies with a society or people who seem to hold us in contempt all the time?

[DrLove42]

I always thought Samurai were Chinese and Ninja were Japan...or maybe I thought they were the other way around and i just get confused :S

Take it you live in China then?

And yeah sure a lot of the issues wesee are exagerated by the media. A lot of it probably is "demonise" China to increase buisness in other places.

I'm also sure that 99% of the chinese population are well meaning individuals. Its just that 1% that make it worse. Unfortunatly 1% of china is still a pretty huge number!

[Wildeybeast]

Well looks like I made that point rather better than even I intended or realized. My bad there.



Samurai is actually Japanese.

It also seems like you and I have been looking at pretty different sources of news if your impression of China is one of an ancient fluffy utopian paradise and the press under-reports their problems and issues.

Whereas the view I got from reading the news is a country with all sorts of social, political and environmental problems that the press loves to bring up, even when it seems totally irrelevant to the story, and the populist western view of China is one where the Chinese government has done nothing good, the Chinese people hate it and the world would be a better place if it was gone, a view echoed by several members in this thread already.

If you have never been to China, you might be pretty shocked at what the average Chinese person on the street knows and thinks.

They know better than the average western citizen about the mistakes of their government and the extent of their freedoms. Yet they also acknowledge the accomplishments and all the good their government has done and all the freedoms they have gained over the years.

China still have a long way to go, but it has come a long way already, and the Chinese government is nowhere near as despised or bad for China as we in the west are told by the media and dissidents.

It is tempting and easy to paint China as the 'bad guys' and blame them for all the world's ills.It is certainly far easier and more convenient than to face up to own own mistakes and failings and summon the strength to make the hard choices and difficult changes needed to address them.

The problem is that China is a rising power, and far more of it's people like and support it's government than we in the west would believe (it's a lot more complicated than that, but I am trying to keep this brief), and all this blithering China-bashing in the west is doing serious damage to the west's image in the eyes of the Chinese people. And the Chinese have long memories.

It seems a little far fetched, but I can already see a noticeable shift in the view a lot of Chinese hold towards the west compared to as late as the 90s, and that shift is definitely not a positive one, and who could be surprised? Would we feel more or less inclined to sympathies with a society or people who seem to hold us in contempt all the time?

I would argue (and this is just my opinion) that regardless of how many people in their own nation support it, any nation which has illeagally occcupied another for over 60 years and systematically repressed their culture and religion cannot recieve enough of a bashing from the West.

[DarkLink]

Funny thing about communism, is that the people don't matter. All the power is in the hands of the party, and they can do whatever they want. And since they're fanatically wed to a political ideology, communist countries tend to make dictatorships look like a nice vacation spot.


And, yes, samurai are from Japan. They're the Japanese equivalent of European knights. Ninja are from Japan as well, though ninja are surrounded by more "facts" than Chuck Norris. Either way, neither have anything to do with China.

Why would you think that I am a member of the EDL?

Because you're spewing psychotic political nonsense. He'd be like "Amnesty International estimates that the communist Chinese government commits approximately 80% of the world's executions", and you're like "nuh-uh, China is awesome and you're a bigot and even if they did I don't care because state sponsored murder is cool".

Edit: I think I got some of the jeske's comments mixed up with yours, plawolf.

I mean, I'm not anti-execution, assuming due process of law and that the punishment is appropriate to the crime, though it is actually cheaper to just throw them in a prison cell for the rest of their life. But anyone who's taken even a cursory glance at the news knows that China openly targets political dissenters to this day. It's not exactly a conspiracy theory. China is not a very nice place.

On a side note, I wonder why anyone thinks communism is even remotely good. Pretty much every communist country in history has played out like a large-scale version of Animal Farm. Between the USSR and the People's Republic of China, it's very well possible the political killings and purges have killed more Chinese and Russians than the total casualties of World War II. And that's just the people that were killed. That's not counting non-lethal human rights abuses, political and economic oppression, and any other number of things that no one should ever want to happen to anyone. And another funny thing is that China's economic growth comes from the adoption of capitalist economic policies. It's ironic that about the only good thing coming out of China is economic growth stemming from the very thing that communism claims to despise. Then again the Chinese government keeps all of that wealth, very little of it actually trickles down to the people, something that will hurt them economically in the long run.


Edit:
I do question the facts about death penalty in china website that was posted earlier, though. It sounds like it was put together by some high school wannabe activist.

[lattd]

Very interesting figures, can I ask where you got them from?

Sorry only just read this post. The details come from:
Priest E (2006 p. 797) “The Future of Music and Film Piracy in China” Berkeley Technology Law Journal, vol 21, p 795
and
Hargreaves I, (2011 page 3) Digital Opportunity: A review of Intellectual Property and Growth. Intellectual Property Office: London

Two very interesting reads.

@Darklink, the USSR under Stalin killed more people through bad politics and removing "undesirables" than people died fighting in WWII.

[Wildeybeast]

Thanks, I'll add them to my 'to read' list.

[lattd]

The Hargreaves report, is what England and Wales has used to develop its new IP law, however this government didn't go all the way with the report which is a shame it has some very interesting ideas.

[gendoikari87]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11155110[/url]

Pirated goods are seized on arrival into the country usually. The only reaosn these might get through is because customs don't know what they're looking for.

It is ILLEGAL to purchase pirated goods in the UK

[url]http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/Yourconsumerrightswhenbuyinggoodsandservices/DG_194549[/url]

I can only assume there is similar rules for the States and other places....I'll have a look and see what I can find

UPDATE - ACTA (Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement) Signed by the US. Makes all counterfeit goods, the sale of, the distribution of and the import of ILLEGAL. The government seems to go after the buyers, cos they can't get the sellers cos of the Chinese governemts attitude to it

has ACTA even been signed yet? Last I heard it had not but that's been a few months. Previously TMK it was only illegal to sell pirated goods. Fairly sure I'd have heard something about it being signed as it had a lot of people up in arms after the SOPA/PIPA