I Just Don't Want to Play Against GKs Anymore and I Feel Bad About It.

[Chris Copeland]

I posit that the Codex: Grey Knights is a poorly written game supplement. The army is over-powered, under-costed, and just too damn good compared to all of the other armies out there. It is an overly forgiving army that is extremely hard to beat and overly easy to play. GKs are good at everything: killing at range and dominating an hand-to-hand combat. I suggest that Games Workshop did not properly think this army through, play-test it, or otherwise properly vet it.

So here is my conundrum: I just don’t want to play against Grey Knights AND YET I’ve never been one to turn down pick up games. I don’t want to be some kind of gaming jerk that only takes on games he is sure to win... anyone who knows me knows I’m not that kind of guy. And yet... who wants to spend two precious hours of their down time being destroyed in detail by a push button army?

I can see myself standing at my favorite game store. I’m chatting with another hobbyist. He says, “Hey, ya wanna play 40K?” I reply, “Sure, I play Bugs. What are you bringing?” He says, “Grey Knights Draigowing! How many points?”

What do I do? Do I surrender the next two hours of my life trying to make the best of it and putting a brave face on it? Do I politely explain that I just just don’t enjoy playing against GK armies and I’d just as soon not? Do I man-up and say, “Sorry, your army feels like a chore to play against and I’d just as soon not.”?

What should I do? What do YOU do? I’m a nice, gregarious gamer who loves playing games with new opponents. I just feel that GW screwed this codex up so much that it’s just not enjoyable to play against. Your comments and advice are welcome. Cheers.

[Father]

Just don't play. I don't feel that GK are any kind of OP, personnaly - your experience will of course differ since Nids have such a tough time with them (I would posit that the GK codex is not broken - the Nid one is. Bugs just weren't given the tools to be competitive in 5th. They have problems dealing with any kind of mechspam, not just knights). With that said, your gaming time is valuable - just explain to your would-be opponent that playing nids against knights is just plain not fun. I'm sure most will understand.

[Chuck777]

Your convo should be adjusted to this:

Guy: "Hey you want to play 40k?"

You: "Sure but, I don't want to play against Grey Knights. No offense to you, its just an army I don't have fun playing against."

To this, the guy will have 3 possible replies:

Response 1: "I play *INSERT AN ARMY HERE THAT IS NOT GREY KNINGHTS. How many points?"

Response 2: "Are you sure you don't want to play Grey Knights? It's all I brought with me..."

Response 3: "You're dumb and I'm done with you."


The reply to Response 1 is self explanatory. Response 2 is easy to navigate, just say you want to play different armies because, regardless of what he takes, you feel your army is at too steep a disadvantage and you'd love to play him if he brought a different army next time. For Response 3, just ignore that person. He isn't good people.

Additionally, if I were you, I would be more proactive and seek out opponents rather than have them seek you out. That way, you can pick people who do not play GK and avoid a great deal of the above conversation.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Your convo should be adjusted to this:

Guy: "Hey you want to play 40k?"

You: "Sure but, I don't want to play against Grey Knights. No offense to you, its just an army I don't have fun playing against."

To this, the guy will have 3 possible replies:

Response 1: "I play *INSERT AN ARMY HERE THAT IS NOT GREY KNINGHTS. How many points?"

Response 2: "Are you sure you don't want to play Grey Knights? It's all I brought with me..."

Response 3: "You're dumb and I'm done with you."


The reply to Response 1 is self explanatory. Response 2 is easy to navigate, just say you want to play different armies because, regardless of what he takes, you feel your army is at too steep a disadvantage and you'd love to play him if he brought a different army next time. For Response 3, just ignore that person. He isn't good people.

Additionally, if I were you, I would be more proactive and seek out opponents rather than have them seek you out. That way, you can pick people who do not play GK and avoid a great deal of the above conversation.

Pretty much exactly what I would have said, it is pretty self explanatory. Most people who you want to play vs will understand totally if you are a nids players, and you can explain to the ones who don't. If they do not understand after explanations you probably don't want to play with them ever again.

[Bean]

You might run into problems with players who only have grey knights, or have only brought grey knights. You can always just go find someone else, but I'd hate to see an older player systematically rejecting some newer player who's built GK as his or her starter army. It would be especially poor form, I think, to treat that army choice as indicative of some sort of character flaw--which I don't imagine you would do, but the vitriol the codex attracts on the forums sometimes toes that line.

Or, you know, against people who like to play their grey knights more than they like playing their other armies. There should to be some give and take--if you're going to ask that other people play games that are less fun for them and more fun for you, you should be willing to return the favor and play against their grey knights occasionally.

I guess the point is that there's nothing wrong with asking your opponents to try to make things more fun for you, but just flat-out refusing to play against anyone's grey knights ever has the potential to be a dick move.

[Jenn]

I don't know if tournament play is your thing at all but if it is then you may want to try looking at pick up games as an opportunity to brush up on your skills. If you keep playing against gk with your Nids you will pick up tactics and learn tricks and get a feel for baiting and swamping their units. With these skills learned through pick up game, you will be at an advantage when playing against gk in tournies. You wouldn't believe the number of times I've gone into a game with an average skill level player who is bringing the flavour of the month 'op' codex and won because they underestimated me and how prepared I was for the matchup. Ive been playing necrons for 6 years and stuck with them for the vast majority of the great depression and although I was at a great disadvantage I was able to pull a respectable number of wins because of an opponent who underestimated me...


I think I went off on a tangent there...

Tldr/ the point I was trying to make:
View these games as a learning opportunity if that floats your boat, if not go with what was said above.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I don't know if tournament play is your thing at all but if it is then you may want to try looking at pick up games as an opportunity to brush up on your skills. If you keep playing against gk with your Nids you will pick up tactics and learn tricks and get a feel for baiting and swamping their units. With these skills learned through pick up game, you will be at an advantage when playing against gk in tournies. You wouldn't believe the number of times I've gone into a game with an average skill level player who is bringing the flavour of the month 'op' codex and won because they underestimated me and how prepared I was for the matchup. Ive been playing necrons for 6 years and stuck with them for the vast majority of the great depression and although I was at a great disadvantage I was able to pull a respectable number of wins because of an opponent who underestimated me...


I think I went off on a tangent there...

Tldr/ the point I was trying to make:
View these games as a learning opportunity if that floats your boat, if not go with what was said above.

valid point

[Deadlift]

How about a Grey Knights list that isn't optimised as an " I win " list.
I play GK but not because of the game winning potential. I like the fluff ( I know but don't shoot me ) and I play with choices from the codex I like the look and feel of. Mordrak and ghost knights, I love NDK over the usual Dreadnoughts with autocannons because to me they look cooler. I don't run razorback spam as I hate building those boring little boxes.
Basically what I am saying is not all GK players are the competative player types but just like the army for what it is.
I have been beaten by Nid players, but a few beers and a laugh made it a win for me anyway. I suppose what I am saying is don't tar all us GK players with the same net build brush. Most of us aren't and when you get a win against one it may restore your faith in the game

[isotope99]

I've found GK to be significantly less overwhelming at 1,500 points as you don't have enough points to pull off the crazy stuff.

[Wildcard]

I've played GK lists from 1k to 3k points. I am casual player only ever looking to have a good time. It took its own time to learn myself the poor choices that make the game unfun, but now that i've gotten hang of it I can say with warm heart that:

- Atleast of the last 10 games, no critique has come from GK itself or the list i've built.
- Every game / player I've won have stated that "It was a good game, and the list wasn't unbeatable by any means.
- One player even said he would prefer me using 3x Psyrifleman instead of 2x NDK

- Note that the timeframe for the last 10 games is 3½-4 months, i sadly cannot play weekly
- I try to build my lists around a 'theme', that is fun to play and fun to play against.
- I do take psycannons, but i dont consider 'spamming' them.
- I roll far too many 1's for my terminators for them to become too big obstacle for my oppoenent