Survey on the use of Army Builder for Tournaments, major and minor

[Gir]

They can be, but what if they aren't? See below. List models with common wargear together, it makes it easier to figure out exactly what's in the squad.

I just did it and got:

Troops: Death Company (10#, 200 pts)
. . 1 Death Company, 0 pts
. . . . 10 Death Company, 200 pts

Seems like user error to me.

[RedScorpionsGirl]

I just did it and got:

Troops: Death Company (10#, 200 pts)
. . 1 Death Company, 0 pts
. . . . 10 Death Company, 200 pts

Seems like user error to me.

Guys. I'd like to clearly point out the topic of this conversation is "Survey on the use of Army Builder for Tournaments, major and minor" not continuously squabbling over Army Builder Output.

Complaining about the different ways lists are output does absoutely nothing towards the questions I'd asked previously, and reiterated in an attempt to keep the conversation on topic.

Again, a huge thank you to those who have actually answered the questions I had asked about Army Builder, and took notice of the actual topic of the post.

Cheers

[Lightcavalier]

1. Both

2. Not required by me/ not mentioned by other TOs

3. I did not want people to have to pay to use something that they can do for themselves/ didnt think about it at the time

4. I went to one event where AB was required, and we went over on registration because half the people didnt have it. Standardised formatting is easier, but that can be established as a group SOP, instead of buying a programme.

5. My last store had a standard format, must be typed, must be laid out such and such a way in a word/excel style document. As a TO I dont care because im in a very small community now, so people catch each other before its a problem. As a player, I like to know what Im looking at...and AB doesnt always give me that.

6. Its a decent product, but I should not have to buy something above and beyond 40k products just to play 40k in a tournament. As well, it is very easy to abuse if you know your way around the data files (not to mention being fraught with errors)

As a TO, AB has not been of a high enough quality to completely replace veryfing things with the codex. Sufice it to say, I let my license expire over a year ago and never looked back. I do up my lists on excel, just copy out the items word for word from the codex (nothing complex). Easy for everyone to read.

[RedScorpionsGirl]

Lightcavalier, thank you for responding! I am researching whether or not to implement the requirement of Army Builder lists for the tournament I run, and whether or not it's a feasible idea.

[Maelstorm]

1. Were you a T.O. or a participant?
.... Both
2. Were Army Builder lists mandatory, preferred, or not required?
....Not Required

3. How did you feel about the response to #2?
....Didn't matter

4. Did you find that Army Builder lists made things easier, harder, or no change? Please explain.
....Much-much eaiser to check. I use AB for all of my 40k army builds.

5. Do you think there should a standard in tournaments for list submission? Army Builder, must be typed, no handwritten...etc. What works best for you as a player, or as a T.O.?
....Yes, either AB or typed in a format. I cannot stand trying to read someones handwritten scribble excuse for a tournament list - it's just begging for errors.

6. Anything in particular you'd like to vent about Army Builder? Regardless of good or bad, how well do you like it as an overall product?
....I enjoy using it. It allows me to see the progression of my tournament list from first trials to ready for prime time army build.

[Tepogue]

Just general answers.

Yes I've used army builder

I've been both a TO and participant. I never required it, but insisted on written lists turned in by all participants.

Only 2-3 out of 20ish tournaments required it.

Once you know the format its easy to read.

It always seems the guy with the army list on a used napkin from Dennies has an army thats both too big and constantly morphs over a game, the people with army builder seem to have correct armies and no moprhing mid game.

[david5th]

1. Were you a T.O. or a participant?
Participant.
2. Were Army Builder lists mandatory, preferred, or not required?
Not required.
3. How did you feel about the response to #2?
Not really that bothered.
4. Did you find that Army Builder lists made things easier, harder, or no change? Please explain.
Easier, it allows me to make changes and instantly see the effects it has on points.
5. Do you think there should a standard in tournaments for list submission? Army Builder, must be typed, no handwritten...etc. What works best for you as a player, or as a T.O.?
As long as they dont look like they have been chewed and spat out i'm not that fussed.
6. Anything in particular you'd like to vent about Army Builder? Regardless of good or bad, how well do you like it as an overall product?
I think it's a good product.

[L192837465]

Don't require it. If you're really that worried, ask for it a few days in advance and go over each list to verify it's legal. If you don't want to do that, then you'll have to trust your players and just require it to be typed.

[RedScorpionsGirl]

Ignoring the last response (as it wasn't really a response to the questions I asked, more of a opinionized statement), thank you to all who answered my little questionaire. I have been compiling answers, and still appreciate getting more if you feel up to taking a moment to answer.

===

As a reminder the questions I asked were:

1. Were you a T.O. or a participant?


2. Were Army Builder lists mandatory, preferred, or not required?


3. How did you feel about the response to #2?


4. Did you find that Army Builder lists made things easier, harder, or no change? Please explain.


5. Do you think there should a standard in tournaments for list submission? Army Builder, must be typed, no handwritten...etc. What works best for you as a player, or as a T.O.?


6. Anything in particular you'd like to vent about Army Builder? Regardless of good or bad, how well do you like it as an overall product?

============

[Lerra]

1. Typically a participant, but I've run small local tournaments and events (15-30 people)

2. Not required. Another local tournament tried requiring them, but only about a third of people actually brought AB lists with them, and the other 2/3rds of the participants ended up waiting in line to use a single computer. It took way too long to be practical. Most of those 2/3rds had never used AB before and had to stumble their way around the program, and many needed help to get their lists typed up in a timely manner. It just wasn't worth the extra hassle.

3. I'm glad AB isn't required. I like the freedom to use my software of choice and the formatting of choice. I haven't run into any problems with basic requirements like "lists must be typed and easy to read". I don't see a need to force the use of AB if there is a more-flexible alternative that works fine.

4. I typically find AB lists to be a pain in the rear because they often span multiple pages, and it's difficult to see the army comp at a glance. I do all of my army lists using Word and manage to get everything on one page, and imo, much easier to read than the typical AB list.

5. I think requiring a typed list is perfectly reasonable. Even if you don't own a printer, it's not that hard to swing by the public library and type something up in Word or Excel. I dislike requiring any particular software app, though. Not everyone is familiar with AB, and if a competing army-building software springs up, I would prefer if people would have the option to use either. Competition being healthy and good for the hobby and all that.

6. Watch out for cheating in army lists even if AB is used. Locally we had two guys using altered data with AB to tweak point values. They made it look like everything added up properly but they were actually a few hundred points over. If they had been more modest in their cheating we probably wouldn't have caught them . . .