Flyer pictures (big pictures)

[Flammenwerfer13]

Looking at a picture of the rules, the Talon cannot escort deepstrikers, each other, or more than one escort per unit. The angle cut off the part about where the 6" is measured from.

SM are getting it in rules now. DA will likely get it added in their codex. SM will be longer for a codex, so they get rules like Eldar did for Night Spinner.

I was browsing the latest pictures from the WD, where did you see it as I probably missed it and I want to confirm it is just for SM Codex.

Thank you!

[Brakkart]

Really liking the look of the Stormtalon from those new pics, though the chin turret is still a bit too big and I'm still not a fan of the 3 little aerials/spikes sticking out the top of it. I want a couple of these for my Imperial Fists. Hopefully they will be easy to magnetize.

Anyone know what the UK price for them is?

[Retroflex]

The model is a disgrace on its own.

I've read some arguments that this all fits into the Space Marine aesthetic, and I frankly think those commenters are raging GW apologists.

Because, ****, what are opinions? Amirite?

Hyperbole is one thing, but damn. I feel like you people are forgetting that Space Marines themselves look like miniature Buzz Lightyears. They already look like miniature toys. Which they are. The Stormtalon is fine.

[GameThug]

%@^&%$ you obviously don't know your fluff.

There has always been air support for Space Marines:

Thunderhawk gunships equipped for A-A, A-G.
Land Speeders equipped for A-A, A-G.
Now there's Stormravens and Stormtalons.

Thunderhawk Gunships are orbital landing craft with very limited Air to Air capability. Their job is to land troops and to participate in ground attack. They are not fighter jets, or even fighter bombers.

Land Speeders are ground effect rapid strike vehicles. They don't fly*.

But hey, you're obviously a fluff expert.

(*except, apparently, for the Tempest?)

[GameThug]

What.

What are Thunderhawks, then? And their strike cruisers and battlebarges? They have tons of naval/aerial assets. Pretty much any picture of large-scale battle with marines in it shows the sky filled with air support.
Space Marine chapters are intended to be fully self-sufficient fighting forces; many of them even have their own dedicated forge facilities (or forge ships, like the Black Templar).

They wouldn't be calling to a rear-echelon base for air support (unless it's a prolonged campaign...in which case...they would), most of the time they'd be calling their ship(s) in orbit. And you can't use orbital bombardment all the time. So they send in Thunderhawks or, outside of apocalypse scenarios now, Stormtalons or Stormravens.

Thunderhawks are landing craft. They are designed to transport Marines from their Ships to the Ground. Like MARINES.

THs are not air-to-air fighters. They are not air-to-ground bombers. They are space-to-ground insertion vehicles with some air-to-ground attack capability. They are also apparently capable space-to-space fighters, where things like aerodynamics, lift, and such things are not relevant (according to BFG, anyway).

Regarding the rear-echelon, space-to-ground is a very long way in terms of the energy needed to transit it; fighters, due to their size, are often limited in terms of actual dogfighting time by their fuel capacity. It takes much less fuel to return laterally to an airbase than it does vertically to a ship.

Space Marines are not entirely independent fighting forces. For their entire in game history, until today, they have relied on the Imperial Navy for Fighter support. Because they're Marines.

[eldargal]

5th edition Codex: Space Marines says you are a liar, it has Thunderhawks engaging in dogfights with Eldar Nightwings. Which they wouldlose as the Nightwings are dedicated AA and Thunderhawks are not, but they still do it.

Remember, there are Thunderhawk Gunships, while there are also Thunderhawk Transporters. Two names, two different roles.

You don't like the Stormtalon, that is fine. But please stop talking like it is objectively terrible and trying to back your opinions with erroneous interpretations of the fluff. SM chapters are independent fighting forces, they always have been. Their only drawback is their size, they were split into chapters from legions so no one man could muster the kind of forces Horus could. Every Space Marine chaptere is a self-contained, independent fighting force with its own tithe worlds, its own fleet, its own vehicles, its own servitors, everything. The fact you are unaware of this and are still trying to claim otherwise in defiance of twenty years worth of background is frankly breathtaking.

It is the Imperial Guard that are reliant on the Imperial Navy for transportation and air support, not Space Marine chapters. After the Horus Heresy the Imparial Army was split into two, the Imperial Guard (ground forces with limited air support) and the Imperial Fleet (the Imperial Navy, with transports and air support but no ground troops and the Merchant and Civil Fleets).

So really if you are going to go make blanket statements like everyone defending the Stormtalon is a GW fanboy, at least getyour damned facts right because at this point you look like a blithering idiot.

When Gulliman set about the long and arduous
task of preparing Codex Astartes, the role of
space vessels amongst the Adeptus Astartes
proved a particular sticking. For an Imperium
still reeling from internecine Heresy that almost
tore it apart, the division of power was a vitally
important consideration. Of the most extreme
options on offer, it was ventured by some that
the Space Marines should be denied any vessels
at all, barring intra-system transports for
movement between homeworlds and attendant
moons. Corax, amongst others, protested
strongly that in fact had the Space Marines been
better equipped with fleets of their own his own
Legion might not have been so horrendously
decimated when trapped on Istvaan V by Horus
and the newly revealed traitors.

Instead, a compromise was reached which limited the
Space Marines to vessels whose primary role was
that of transport, delivery and suppression designed to facilitate planetary assault. Only the
smallest of vessels would be permitted to act
exclusively as gunships, with the larger
battlebarges and strike cruisers remaining
predominantly as aids to invasion, ensuring the
Space Marines would never present a threat to
the Imperial Navy proper.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

5th edition Codex: Space Marines says you are a liar, it has Thunderhawks engaging in dogfights with Eldar Nightwings. Which they wouldlose as the Nightwings are dedicated AA and Thunderhawks are not, but they still do it.

Remember, there are Thunderhawk Gunships, while there are also Thunderhawk Transporters. Two names, two different roles.

You've got a point there.

As I have previously mentioned, I am our Deathwatch Team's pilot. I have flown a Thunderhawk Gunship/Dropship, a Stormraven, and a Stormeagle. I have been involved in dogfights against Imperials, Eldar and Tau. Rather successfully too I might add.
I know quite a lot of flight terms, and roughly know how to fly a plane, which I have applied directly to the vehicles that I have flown.
I imagine that I may get an opportunity to fly the Stormtalon, which I really like.

[energongoodie]

I'm looking at the Ork weapons summary and as far as I can tell there are two weapons that are identical.

Big shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3
Suppa shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3

I can't see the point of this? If I am missing something then please let me know.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Might have an additional special rule??

[Kharandros]

My problem is that somewhere the design studio has gone off the rails in the grimdark aesthetic.

When you look at the Land Raider, Chimera, Rhino, or even Thunderhawk, there is this sense of scale and design that holds them together with the rugged Imperium they serve.

Starting with the Stormraven and the Stormtalon, every one is becoming less a rugged combat vehicle that belongs in the dark millennium and more a toylike cartoon of what the actual vehicle should have been.

This newest Marine flyer makes me think of this: (see attachment).

Games Workshop has always said the target customer for 40k is teenage boys, now they are outright making toys for them.

Now that Ork flyer is ACE!!!

Google "G Police venom" and they look similar

[url]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/058/0/6/G_Police_Venom_Gunship_by_AvalanchJML.jpg[/url]

I agree on the orky kraft, its real orky. Necron one didnt suprise at all, just blah.