Grey Knights 1500

[Learn2Eel]

Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some advice on a new Grey Knights army I was wanting to start.
I've been playing WH40K for a while but have only very recently taken interest in the Grey Knights - I've always thought they were too cheesy an army.

In any case, this list was designed with friendly games in mind at a local store; it isn't intended to be a tournament-list. However, I still want to run a semi-competitive one that isn't reliant on cheesy tactics to win and can at least face off against anyone looking for a pick-up game.

Here it is;
1500

HQ
Librarian w/ Halberd, the Shrouding, Might of Titan - 165
Librarian w/ Halberd, the Shrouding, Might of Titan - 165

Troops
Grey Knight Terminators (5) w/ (1) Daemon Hammer, (4) Halberds, Psycannon, Psybolt - 245
Grey Knight Terminators (5) w/ (1) Daemon Hammer, (4) Halberds, Psycannon, Psybolt - 245

Fast Attack
Stormraven Gunship w/ TL multi-melta - 205
Stormraven Gunship w/ TL multi-melta - 205

Heavy Support
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL autocannon, Psybolt - 135
Dreadnought w/ 2x TL autocannon, Psybolt - 135

The main theme behind this list is board control and rapid assault; my entire army is contained within two Stormravens, both of which will always start the game reserved and turbo-boost on. This army obviously has a high risk element to it; if one Stormraven comes on first turn and the other doesn't for at least two turns, my one Stormraven will be the target of some serious firepower. I can see why a Grand Master would work for this list as he would provide that reserve roll bonus and Grand Mastery so that I can potentially drop my Dreadnoughts off on my home objectives after making them scoring. After all, the Shrouding only really helsp whilst I'm turbo-boosting or if I need to jump my terminators into cover; stealth won't help me get cover for a vehicle that large. This list is suppossed to be challenging and yet rewarding at the same time; I rely on my durability, target priority and positioning heavily, a fun alternative to my Thousand Sons and Dark Eldar.

My own criticism draws heavily around the psybolt ammunition on the terminators; I think it isn't as useful for the style of list I am going for as say a brotherhood banner, but I can't think of anything worth shedding points for. I've considered dropping one Librarian for a Grand Master to help with the reserve rolls; the idea would then be to keep both Stormravens next to each other when they turbo boost, which I feel is likely what I would normally do. I like the insurance of the Librarian though as, even with Psychic Communion there is always a chance the Grand Master's Stormraven can turbo-boost down without Stealth. Also, the Librarian's provide Might of Titan to my terminators so as to not only get significant strength bonuses but also becomes an absolute monster for walkers and tanks - I6 S7 (potentially) with 2 attacks each base and 2D6 armour penetration! I was considering dropping psybolt and maybe the halberds on the Librarians so as to fit in hurricane bolters on my Stormravens which would make them even more devastating against infantry and heavy infantry. An interesting point that was made to me was to exchange one of the autocannons on each dreadnought for an assault cannon. Considering my store only has small boards, I think it would be more useful considering they get dropped off after moving flat-out onto the board from reserve. Having what is essentially a psycannon would probably help more against vehicles such as Land Raiders and Monoliths too.

Any criticism and thoughts are appreciated. Cheers.

[Learn2Eel]

Wow, I didn't realize when I wrote this list just how dirty it was.....at least as far as 5th Edition went. It's even dirtier in 6th Edition

In any case, I've changed it around to incorporate elements that I want to run, ones that are definitely still cheesy but not simply buying models to fit a WAAC list. Here's my new 1500 list.

HQ

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor w/ rad grenades, psychotroke grenades, power armour - 63
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor w/ rad grenades, psychotroke grenades, power armour - 63

Troops

Terminators (5) w/ 4 halberds, 1 daemon hammer, psycannon - 225
Terminators (5) w/ 4 halberds, 1 daemon hammer, psycannon - 225

Fast Attack

Stormraven Gunship w/ hurricane bolters, psybolt ammunition, twin-linked multi-melta - 255
Stormraven Gunship w/ hurricane bolters, psybolt ammunition, twin-linked multi-melta - 255

Heavy Support

Nemesis Dreadknight w/ personal teleporter - 205
Nemesis Dreadknight w/ personal teleporter - 205

I love the Coteaz model, as well as the Inquisitor model with the Inferno Pistol. Dreadknights are too cool to ignore.
The Inquisitors are there to buff my hard-hitting Terminators, whilst the Dreadknights are foils for the rest of my army - they alone start on the board, and I use them to draw opposition fire whilst my other elements zoom in for the kill. The strategy revolves around using the board and terrain to my advantage; this is one of few armies where I would feasibly like to deploy second. It allows me to position my Dreadknights to either hide from what can actually harm them, or deploy opposite what would either threaten my Stormravens or simply be big targets for them to destroy. There's only so many long-ranged weapons that ignore its armour saves in any given army, especially in a local store sense.
Also, due to the new rules, given that local gaming boards are typically 4x4, it is quite possible to get first turn charges off with these guys; both sides deploy 12" on, opponent moves unit up 6". Dreadknight moves up 12", and with the 2D6 charging distance rolls, if a unit is close to my Dreadknight it has a decent chance of making it into combat.

If I am up against horde armies, I'd consider putting Incinerators on my Dreadknights and dropping psybolt on the Stormravens.

[gendoikari87]

Both inquisitors will have to start out on their own, on the board so they're going to be shot to pieces.

[Learn2Eel]

Both inquisitors will have to start out on their own, on the board so they're going to be shot to pieces.

Why is that? Inquisitors are independent characters, they can join the Terminator unit in the Stormraven, unless I am missing something?

The Stormraven has a transport capacity of 12 models; terminators take up two spaces.
5 Terminators = 10 spaces taken up.
I can then fit the Inquisitor in.

Or did you mean the Dreadknights?

[gendoikari87]

Why is that? Inquisitors are independent characters, they can join the Terminator unit in the Stormraven, unless I am missing something?

The Stormraven has a transport capacity of 12 models; terminators take up two spaces.
5 Terminators = 10 spaces taken up.
I can then fit the Inquisitor in.

Or did you mean the Dreadknights?

only 50% of your army can start in reserve and flyers have to start in reserve.

[Bean]

Yeah, it's an amusing list, but I think you'll run into some crippling problems.

First, as Gendo says, you can only start half (rounded up) of your units (not counting those which have to start in reserve) in reserve. Since the Storm Ravens are flyers, they to start in reserve, which leaves you able to start them and three other units in reserve.

That means that your deployment is routinely going to look like double DKs, Terminators, Inquisitor.

Moreover, you really don't have enough troops. Five of six, if I recall correctly, of the missions are objective missions. You are generally going to need more than two scoring units--and remember, they can't score from within the Ravens.

Finally, DKs are pretty decent, but I wouldn't take two. They're just not that good. And, unless your opponents are just idiots, I wouldn't expect them to set up many first turn charges for you. Second turn, sure. First turn...that's relying on way more cooperation from your opponent than you ever should.

I would try a more balanced approach. One storm raven, one inquisitor with one terminator unit, all in reserve. One dreadknight on the table along with a couple of a couple of foot strike squads and an Interceptor squad.

I think that'd be a much stronger list.

[Learn2Eel]

Ah I see. I didn't read that rule too clearly; I assumed that either the Independent Characters joining the Terminators or the units being in the Stormravens would make it legal....hmmm.
I definitely have to change the list then.

I agree, it is lacking in troops choices; an idea commonly floated around is to have at least 1 troops choice per 500 points, dependent of course on the style of list. The idea was board-control and relying on the durability of my Terminators, as well as selecting my engagements. But if there is a multitude of objectives, I am kind of in a pickle; I would have to rely on my Terminators and Dreadknights surviving; the latter being most crippling because I am using them to soak up fire.

As far as the Dreadknights go, I find online that people tend to take a pair; unit redundancy, target priority, etc. You'd be surprised about the first-turn charges thing. I'm not relying on it all, all I meant was that the possibility is there, but on a 42" board it is quite feasible. Mind you though, as you say, anyone with a brain knows not to run near a Dreadknight unless you are kitted out to deal with it (TH/SS Termies, tarpits, etc).

I ran a footslogging list with Interceptors and Purgation Squads, backed by Terminators the other day with someone else's army, and I must say it was a welcome change to running a mech list. That and, given the nature of small boards, Grey Knights relatively shorter range weaponry isn't really affected that much.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll retool my list now.

[bforber]

2 multi-meltas aren't reliable enough to deal with a zooming flyer, (neither are two psycannons.) Consider finding the points for a typhoon missile rack or lascannon if you're looking to board control from a distance instead of headon colliding with things. A necron scythe list would look at this and say "lol".

As mentioned, you're short on bodies, and typically you don't need both grenades to win an assault, especially now with 2+ being as powerful as it is against power weapons.

Surprisingly, I think, if you're going with a low model count list, (which can work under the right cirumstances,) you have too many easy VPs for your opponent.

I'd suggest something like-

Grand master, nades(room for both if you really want them, melta bomb 205-220

10x terminators 2 psycannons, 2 hammers, 3 swords, (to save against power axes,) 3 halberds 450

Terminators x5, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 1 sword/psy 225

Stormraven w/ TLLC and assault cannon 205? I think. Doing math off the top of my head. Or you could drop the nades off the GM and get psybolt here, which I would recommend as you'll be double casting hammerhand and wounding everything on 2+ anyway.

Dreadknight w/ teleporter 205
Dreadknight w/ teleporter 205

2 less VP, a whole mess of options with grand strategy and a brick to bunker down on an objective, (or to combat squad if the need so arises.) You still have your assaulty unit in a stormraven, but now you're capable of deploying the number of units you need while being able to compensate for lack of scoring units, (or you can scout your dreadknights up for t1 assaults if your opponent is dumb,) in a VP game.

Just my idea, though.

[Bean]

I'm still not a big fan of double DK, though least with a GM, there's a good chance they'll both be scoring, and that's handy.

Also, I wouldn't put a sword on a psycannon terminator. The only thing that swords are good for is sucking up dangerous close combat hits, but they're a far cry from reliable on that front. You don't want to endanger your psycannon. He should have a halberd or hammer (probably hammer).

The Justicar is a decent choice for the sword, since he can make and accept challenges, or you might shell out for warding staff on him, so he's really good at challenges. It's a bit pricy, though.

[Learn2Eel]

Thanks guys.

@bforber, Stormraven's can have the TLMM and TLLC, both for free - the former switches out a Heavy Bolter, the latter switches out the Assault Cannon. My local store gamers usually tell me to stick with the Assault Cannon for flexibility, but as you say, it leaves me shorter on the anti-tank front than if I had both the TLLC and the TLMM (although that's debatable, especially with psybolt added to make the TLAC a TLPC.
Yeah, doing Math-Hammer showed me that one of those units can make mince meat out of almost anything that doesn't have a 2+ armour save, which really isn't necessary. Agreed on the VP front.
The only potential issue is that I have already assembled a Terminator box; 4 halberds, 1 daemon hammer, a psycannon on a halberd, and the Justicar has a halberd.

Does double-casting Hammerhand still work? In 5th Edition it was legal but some people I've spoken to think it isn't. If it is legal, that makes my day easier.

@Bean I see what you mean about the double Dreadknight thing, I love the model but frankly a Psyflemen dread can do so much more my anti-tank purposes.