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Thread: Eldar in 6th

  1. #1

    Default Eldar in 6th

    On the whole I think Eldar have fared quite well with the change ot 6th. Our book is still old and held together with wire and hope but the power level is much the same. I'll largely ignore units that I think are mostly unchanged.

    Avatar: Monstrous creatures have been buffed significantly, gaining Fear, Smash, Hammer of Wrath, and a couple of other USRs. Still no Eternal Warrior.

    Farseers: Probably the best psykers in the game between being able to potentially have four of the new powers, having the only save against Perils of the warp in the game and being able to make perils against other psykers more likely.

    Autarchs: Their reserve ability may have been buffed, not really absorbed this part of the rules properly yet

    Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general

    Seer Council: Potentially incredibly powerful still, especially on jetbikes, the extra T meaning they go frim being insta-sploded by S6 to S8. Singing Spears are still S9 too so they can mince up tanks good and proper.

    Harlequins: If Veil of Tears works against overwatch fire and you roll well could potentially ignore overwatch. Rending is still decent, 5++ save is good but they are still expensive. On the other hand plasma grenades are actually useful not. I am thinking perhaps Harlequins will be worth taking a little more.

    Howling Banshees: AP3 nerfs them a tad, but then they never excelled at taking on terminators in my opinion Acrobatic is nerfed a bit as counterattack has to pass a LD test now, but their LD is very high so it is only an extremely minor nerf. Still good Marine hunters if backed by a psyker, still in desperate need of a new codex entry.

    Striking Scorpions: 3+ save against overwatch fire very useful, mostly unchanged really. Possibly their higher number of attacks and superior armour save will make them better terminator hunters now that wound allocation nonsense is gone and Banshees can't ignore their armour.

    Shining Spears: More survivable thanks to T4 vs instadeath, faster, still overpriced.

    Swooping Hawks: Hits vehicles (including flyers) on a 4+ with haywire grenades? Yes, please. These chaps may just be useful now, very high chance of intercepting flyer transports threatening our lines.

    Dire Avengers: If Bladestorm can be used during overwatch these chaps will be even better at defending objectives, especially with a shimmershield granting 5++ in CC.

    Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.

    Guardians: Terrible in 5th, terrible in 6th. Overwatch may make them moderately acceptable guarding an objective in cover with a psyker giving them full BS.

    Wraithlords: Buffed like all MCs, certainly worth taking.

    Falcons: Holofields are useless, much of our weaponry remains unchanged. Falcons are Ok but still not great. MSU not so omnipotent now so less reason to take the expensive falcon transport perhaps? Still just an average choice in my opinoin.

    Vypers: Squadrons are no longer such a liability, these things are fast and get a 5+ jink save so I think these may be worthwhile but still inferior to the FW Hornet. Then again cheap vypers with scatter lasers put out a lot of shots for a modest price.

    Fire Prisms: Better. The changes to blast means they will hit with their full strength even if the centre hole is off. Two fire prisms can get a S10 AP1 blast on a vehicle up to 60" which has a decent chance of wrecking or exploding it.

    Nightspinners: Lots of indirect S5 fire that has a chance to kill units that move? Yep, still great.

    From FW:

    Nightwing, now a legal codex choice, is fantastic. Has Titan holofields granting it a 4++ save against all attacks, attacks that hit on 6s anyway except Skyfire. Effectively has skyfire itself so makes a good flyer hunter.

    Corsairs: Interesting to see if the corsair list can be allid with by a Codex: Eldar army given that technically it isn't in the codex itself. Going to email FW and ask.

    That's all I've thought of thus far, please post your own thoughts.

    Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable. With guess ranges a thing of the past we can now have indirect firing D-cannon batteries that wound on 2+ with AP2 that won't be popped by bolter fire.
    Last edited by eldargal; 06-29-2012 at 07:44 AM.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  2. #2
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    Shinning Spears have been hit by the change to power weapons as well I think. Not that I ever use one...

    Can swooping Hawks assault vehicles? If so, they might be some useful AA in the army

    Warp Hunters are still great. (assuming no changes to barrage rules - haven't heard any yet). Can get over the damage done to vehicles by just hiding. And with the loss of AP2 in places, they're still great against Terminators

    Hornets are the same. 8 Scatter laser shots can probably take off a hull point or 2 reliably. Only problem is 2 hull points....quite easy to kill

    I want to know if the Wratihseer can swap his powers out for the new stuff.

    And glad to hear Wraithlords seem better, I've always enjoyed using them. And i'm considering a list that includes 5 right now...

    Also if you really want a unit dead, you need 2 Farseers. One with guide and doom, the other with the power that makes you reroll succesful saves. Rerolling to hit, to wound and passed armour saves will kill something dead pretty fast....
    Autarch, Shas'o, Chaos Lord and Decadant Lord of the Webway. And a Doctor!
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  3. #3

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    Anyone can assault vehicles, though I just realised you can't assault flyers that zoom at all, but Hawk fluff has them doing just that so hoping for a FAQ! Still useful for splatting flyer transports when they go in hover mode, but if they ren't FAQed to be able to assault flyers then Nightwing will be worth taking over Hawks.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  4. #4

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    Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general
    You are overlooking the fact that most Energy weapons are now AP 3 or worse, and Phoenix lords have 2+ armor...

    Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.
    Do not forget precision shots in combination with the ds 1 they get if they wound. Sniping Sergeants and special weapons anyone?

  5. #5
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    I think the Nightwing is always going to be worth taking over the Hawks. I'm expecting an FAQ to say they can move less than the other fliers, or something to make them more maneuverable.
    Autarch, Shas'o, Chaos Lord and Decadant Lord of the Webway. And a Doctor!
    http://drlove42.blogspot.com/

  6. #6

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    Drakkan Vael, very good point about the saves, I still think they need a ++ and points reduction to make them really worthwhile. Mind you I never take SCs in normal games so it won't impact me much either way.

    Actually five Swooping Hawks with exarch and intercept will be nearly as much as Nightwing costs, so the Nightwing will win out.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general

    Seer Council: Potentially incredibly powerful still, especially on jetbikes, the extra T meaning they go frim being insta-sploded by S6 to S8. Singing Spears are still S9 too so they can mince up tanks good and proper.

    Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable. With guess ranges a thing of the past we can now have indirect firing D-cannon batteries that wound on 2+ with AP2 that won't be popped by bolter fire.
    Two things:

    First, it appears the psyker powers which target your own units cannot be cancelled. This is a big buff to seer councils, as one of their main problems was that when fortune was cancelled, they folded like wet paper. No longer.

    Also. Did not know that about artillery That is awesome. I see 3x D-cannon units in my future.

    Also: Wraithguard. Overwatch is a big buff to these guys. Their main problem was being assaulted before getting a good round of shooting off, now, with Foreboding, they can really lay the hurt on anything charging them.

    Potential bonus to Maugan Ra: If characters can allocate their wounds, his shooting became really, really, really nasty.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkan Vael View Post
    You are overlooking the fact that most Energy weapons are now AP 3 or worse, and Phoenix lords have 2+ armor...
    Interesting point. Might be fun to play around with. I like the universal buff to all SC's. Combine this with the "Look Out Sir!" special rule, and it means SC's are more like their 2nd edition incarnations than ever before (which I like, though I know thats not a universal opinion).

    On a seprate note, one of the psychic powers that caught my eye was Invisibility: Unit gains shrouding and stealth, hostiles charged by this unit lose counter attack and fight at WS 1. Made me think of a Farseer baby sitting some Dark Reapers camping in a fortification. Combined with the overwatch rule it could give these guys some of their luster back.

    Throw in the new psychic Divination power that gives the unit counter attack and get full BS for overwatch and we're taking some serious steps towards 2nd edition melta-missile overwatch madness.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general
    A bit better due to power weapons only being AP3 and now characters can try to make targetted attacks on specific models so you can remove the power fist sergeant about to smash you. Still quite over-priced and scared crapless of TH/SS, but then few things aren't. Need +1 to all of their stats except Strength and Toughness.

    Howling Banshees: AP3 nerfs them a tad, but then they never excelled at taking on terminators in my opinion Acrobatic is nerfed a bit as counterattack has to pass a LD test now, but their LD is very high so it is only an extremely minor nerf. Still good Marine hunters if backed by a psyker, still in desperate need of a new codex entry.
    Counter-attack has always required a Ld test, but it's only ever been a problem if you roll really poorly. These girls are one of the few units who have taken a pretty big hit with the power weapon nerf, along with Incubi, Sanguinary Guard and Black Templar LC/FC Terminators. I used to use them as a counter-strike when Terminators got too close but I think I'd rather use Harlequins now, or just add more firepower.

    Striking Scorpions: 3+ save against overwatch fire very useful, mostly unchanged really. Possibly their higher number of attacks and superior armour save will make them better terminator hunters now that wound allocation nonsense is gone and Banshees can't ignore their armour.
    The Scorpions have taken a pretty big hit now that they can no longer Outflank and assault. I don't know what the new rules for Infiltrate are though, so I suppose we'll see.

    Shining Spears: More survivable thanks to T4 vs instadeath, faster, still overpriced.
    Only have one wound anyway and their lances are now AP3 unless the FAQ says otherwise. Even worse than they used to be.

    Swooping Hawks: Hits vehicles (including flyers) on a 4+ with haywire grenades? Yes, please. These chaps may just be useful now, very high chance of intercepting flyer transports threatening our lines.
    I had the same thought. The introduction of Flyers should see the Hawks back in business as the airbourne interceptors they should be. I'm really hoping in vain that some day a Codex writer will realise that Hawks should obviously count as having Jetpacks as they have sustained flight.

    Dire Avengers: If Bladestorm can be used during overwatch these chaps will be even better at defending objectives, especially with a shimmershield granting 5++ in CC.
    The boys in blue are still as great as ever. Overwatch makes them even scarier. I never use Bladestorm anyway as I find it to be a waste of 15pts most of the time, I usually find myself firing for a couple of consecutive turns anyway, but that's just me. If it does work with Overwatch, I shall be tempted.

    Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.
    The new Sniper rules do indeed make them a lot more appealing, they were just useless for anything but camping on objectives before now.

    Falcons: Holofields are useless, much of our weaponry remains unchanged. Falcons are Ok but still not great. MSU not so omnipotent now so less reason to take the expensive falcon transport perhaps? Still just an average choice in my opinion.
    Being able to fire more weapons on the move has made them a bit better, but I'd still rather have Wave Serpents as they have the Energy Field (I still don't see why they don't put them on all of their tanks, especially Super-Heavies) and the Twin-linked guns.
    Hopefully they'll update the Eldar Artillery, as currently they're completely pointless when you could just have a Night Spinner or Warp Hunter which do the same thing but are tougher and are both large blasts instead of small. The D-cannon artillery is technically better against tanks I suppose, but the longer range and greater infantry-wiping ability of the Warp Hunter makes up for that in my opinion, and we have better ways of dealing with vehicles.

  10. #10

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    On the phoenix lords:

    • Asurmen: No major change - still overpriced for his indecisive mix of combat or ranged. Makes a good bodyguard for a farseer but that's a lot of points in one unit.
    • Jain Zarr: Keep her away from terminators and she'll do well, get her near a terminator and her potential is wasted. Better at emergency tank busting now with greater chance of hitting.
    • Baharroth: Still struggles with fragility of his hawks. A lot will turn on FAQ and flyers + intercept IMHO.
    • Karandras: Loss of AP2 on power weapons and look out sir will really help him survive to use his S8 claw. The best combat monster vs terminators. One of the most improved by virtue of being harder to kill.
    • Fuegan: Also benefits from loss of AP2 power weapons for his enemies while keeping his own and his feel no pain will actually be better if he can take it against all AP. Suffers still with poor combat profile of fire dragons.
    • Maugan Ra: Same as before, great if you can spare the points but unlikely to be worth it attached to dark reapers.


    In summary, I can definitely see Fuegan and Karandras getting more table time now and maybe Baharroth if he can hunt flyers effectively.

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