Eldar in 6th

[Aramel]

Not terribly worth it in my opinion. Yes they will be as good or better in turn one thanks to the +str than before, but afterwards they will die in droves before even hitting. Add to that the fact that you can't assault out of serpents anymore, which means you will be eating a ton of bolter fire before reaching those terminators.

Harlequins with a shadowseer now are pretty amazing. Expensive, but with their +3 to cover save their chances of reaching the enemy in one piece are pretty good and the new divination basic power+doom combo will make them wreck anything in combat.

Oh and the FAQ to lashwips forces banshees to roll off to see which effect governs and Enhance no longer helps...annoying.

[Chronowraith]

Here is why Power Axes at I10 don't work (in my opinion).

Unwieldy - "A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative 1..."
Banshee Mask - "In the first round of an assault a model wearing a banshee mask has Initiative 10..."

So the Banshee mask makes you Initiative 10 but the unwieldy rule states that the ATTACKS happen at Initiative 1. So you have a model with Initiative 10 that strikes at Initiative 1 due to the wording on the weapon.

This really isn't any different than a power fist on a marine. The marine himself is initiative 4. The fist makes him strike at Initiative 1. Even if you gave the marine a banshee mask the same thing would happen because the power fist's unwieldy rule stats that all strikes with that weapon happen at Initiative 1.

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As far as Eldar in 6th... Overall I'm happy. Some units (like banshees) don't work as well as they used to but many others (jetbikes, rangers, warp spiders, etc) all increased in effectiveness. Hell, I'm tempted to take an Avatar now since he just received a sizable boost in power (between the new MC rules and him being a character).

[keithsilva]

But no where does it state they alwais strike and int. and iqnore any and all modifiers to there Int. Banshees are Int. 5 and 6 and on the first around of combat the mask makes them I10.

For exsample look up the rule for powerfist and thunder hammers in 5th edition (i know i know it 6th not 5th)
it clearly states they do not benefit from any modifiers and WILL ALWAYS strike at I1. Now does it say that in the Unwelding special rule no, unless it is somewhere else in the book I cant finf it. All is says is models with unweldy strike at I1 but it does not state they ignore modifiers and always strike at I1.

Basically they would be I5, give them axes they get bump down to I1, but with mask on first round they are bumped to I10, and any other rounds they would fall back to I1. My arguement is it does not say anywhere that the iqnore modifiers to there Int. when having Unwelding weapons.

[Aramel]

Because of the change to combat mechanics, even if they do have I10, banshees with axes will still strike at I1. Unwieldly does not say that the model gets I1, it says the model will strike at the I1 step. I agree this seems idiotic, but that is mainly because the language of our codex is not compatible with the new terminology

[keithsilva]

It's the same with the mask it doesn't say they get i10 they strike at i10 first round if it stated that unwielding never benefits from modifiers I would agree but it doesn't.

[Lemt]

Striking Scorpions, Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks have the Hammer of Wrath special rule, so they've gained an extra attack the turn they charge. At I10 too!
Sure, you don't get Strength bonuses for that attack, but hey.

[Chronowraith]

It's the same with the mask it doesn't say they get i10 they strike at i10 first round if it stated that unwielding never benefits from modifiers I would agree but it doesn't.

Read the rules for the banshee mask again. it states, and I quote directly, "In the first round of an assault a model wearing a banshee mask HAS INITIATIVE 10...". Nowhere does it state the Banshee "strikes" at I10. The rest of the mask description has no bearing on this issue as the power axe is not a grenade nor is it cover.

Unwieldy affects the strikes, the banshee mask affects the initiative of the wielder.

Unwieldy also doesn't need to state that modifiers to initiative don't affect it because unwieldy isn't a modifier to initiative. It simply states that the bearer of said weapon strikes at initiative step 1. The actual initiative of the bearer is superfluous in this case.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah but rhinos are what 35pts? Can get 3 of yours for one of ours.

Yeah, but they blow up like pros.

[JMichael]

Unwieldy affects the strikes, the banshee mask affects the initiative of the wielder.

Unwieldy also doesn't need to state that modifiers to initiative don't affect it because unwieldy isn't a modifier to initiative. It simply states that the bearer of said weapon strikes at initiative step 1. The actual initiative of the bearer is superfluous in this case.

+1 to this

[eldargal]

There is a discussion on the Banshee Mask-Unwiledy thing in the rules section, can we keep it there? Let's keep this thread for tactics rather than rules discussions.