Special Power "axes"

[Brandoncbaker]

The term axe is only in its name,which also confers its status as unique,but the rules in the BA codex clearly state that it is a powe weapon. The BRB then says that a power weapon which is unique,master crafted making it so, is treated as being a AP3 power weapon. Just my opinion,and until its clarified as good as any. As a matter of fact as I see it,there's more support to it being a AP3 Weapon than there is otherwise

[daboarder]

Here is your answer, Dante's weapon was not FAQ'd, It is a "master crafted power weapon", FAQ directs you to follow the rules in the rulebook, rulebook states...

If the models wargear says it has a power weapon that has NO FURTHER special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has...

Ergo Dante's axe is not an axe, it is a unique power weapon like the glaive encarmine and is therefore AP3.

[Nachodragon]

You forgot the last half of the sentence..."if it is a sword or dagger, it's a power sword, if it's an axe or halberd it's a power axe...". Master crafted is not unique. The Unusual Power Weapon is for items like Kharn's axe.

The rulebook is trying to go more WYSIWYG. Dante's axe is an axe. Glaive encarmine is actually the more ambiguous entry. From the box, I would say you have 2 axes and 3 swords, that is how they are modeled.

[daboarder]

You forgot the last half of the sentence..."if it is a sword or dagger, it's a power sword, if it's an axe or halberd it's a power axe...". Master crafted is not unique. The Unusual Power Weapon is for items like Kharn's axe.

The rulebook is trying to go more WYSIWYG. Dante's axe is an axe. Glaive encarmine is actually the more ambiguous entry. From the box, I would say you have 2 axes and 3 swords, that is how they are modeled.

And your ignoring the first part, You do not continue on if the weapon has further special rules, dante's axe has further special rules.

like this,

Dante has "master crafted power weapon"
Dante's Power weapon has further special rules,
Therefore dante's power weapon cannot follow the "look to model" premise as it DOES NOT have no further special rules,
Therefore Dante's axe falls under "unique" weapons.

master crafted doesn't NEED to be unique it is a special rule.

[Nachodragon]

Lemartes says it is a master crafted power weapon. They ruled it a power maul. Because who knows what a Blood Crozius actually is! Dante has an Axe. It is a power weapon and it is master crafted. But it is an axe. there are no special rules for the weapon.

Asotrath's axe is actually an AP3 weapon. It has special rules that are unique to it.

"If the model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has; if it is a sword or dagger, it's a power sword, if it's an axe or halberd it's a power axe.."

The next section talks of Unusual Power Weapons and assigning it an AP of 3. The section you have referenced does not back up the axe not being an axe. Master-crafted does not designate Unique. Astorath's axe and Kharn's axe are unique rules.

[daboarder]

Lemartes says it is a master crafted power weapon. They ruled it a power maul. Because who knows what a Blood Crozius actually is! Dante has an Axe. It is a power weapon and it is master crafted. But it is an axe. there are no special rules for the weapon.

Asotrath's axe is actually an AP3 weapon. It has special rules that are unique to it.

"If the model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has; if it is a sword or dagger, it's a power sword, if it's an axe or halberd it's a power axe.."

The next section talks of Unusual Power Weapons and assigning it an AP of 3. The section you have referenced does not back up the axe not being an axe. Master-crafted does not designate Unique. Astorath's axe and Kharn's axe are unique rules.

Emphasis mine.

The ruling on lemartes has no bearing on this argument, they changed it in the FAQ otherwise it too would fall under this rule, they did not change dante's axe therefore it still has further special rules

hell its not even twisting the wording it straight up says you only look to the model if it has no further special rules

[Nachodragon]

Ok, so if we go with your theory. The PW has special rules. Ok, the entry does not actually state what it is, just a power weapon. So, we need to go to the Unusual Power Weapons area. So, does it have unique rules? No. Master-crafted is not a unique close combat rule. Ok, well, now what? How do we tell what it is? Oh wait, the prior section told me I should look at the model. Well, clearly, Dante has an Axe. So, I guess Dante has a Master Crafted Power Axe. Yay!

This is partially GW's fault for confusing words again. They use 'special rules' to actually mean 'Unique rules'. They forgot they had a section called special rules. I would hope they would learn their lesson but the more things change the more... well, you get the idea.

[Bean]

And your ignoring the first part, You do not continue on if the weapon has further special rules, dante's axe has further special rules.

like this,

Dante has "master crafted power weapon"
Dante's Power weapon has further special rules,
Therefore dante's power weapon cannot follow the "look to model" premise as it DOES NOT have no further special rules,
Therefore Dante's axe falls under "unique" weapons.

master crafted doesn't NEED to be unique it is a special rule.

You're half right. If you go by this rule, you're right. However, earlier posters have also accurately applied another rule in the same section, which illustrates an interesting gap in the rules.

The first rule is, "If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has..."

The second rule is, "If a power weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry."


At this point, the gap should be obvious:

Dante's wargear does not say that it has a power weapon which has no further special rules (as noted, he has a power weapon, but it does have a further special rule--master-crafted). Therefore, you don't look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has.

However, Dante's power weapon does not have its own unique close combat rules, so you don't treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry.

Neither rule applies to Dante's axe, because both rules only apply to weapons matching a specific description, and Dante's axe fits neither.

So, both of you are kinda right and kinda wrong, and the rules as written don't actually offer a resolution for Dante's axe.

If it were me, I think I'd house rule it as a master-crafted power axe. I think that the "further special rules" in the first rule probably is meant to refer to the same sort of "unique close combat rules" to which the second rule refers.

[Brandoncbaker]

Lemartes says it is a master crafted power weapon. They ruled it a power maul. Because who knows what a Blood Crozius actually is! Dante has an Axe. It is a power weapon and it is master crafted. But it is an axe. there are no special rules for the weapon..

Your right it is listed in BA codex as being Master Crafted. Master Crafted is in the Special Rules section of the Rulebook.soooo?

[daboarder]

lemartes is irrelevant, These FAQ contain rules changes (see typhus) they choose to change the rules for lemartes but not the rules for Dante.