6th auto-hit weapons vs flyers.

[Lemt]

EDIT: Here are the results after several pages of discussion, with quotes of the relevant rules:
Auto-hit weapons can't hit Zooming Flyers unless they have the Skyfire special rule.
Auto-hit weapons on flyers can choose to use Skyfire each turn to be able to hit Zooming Flyers, but if they do then they can't hit non-flyer units unless they also have the Interceptor rule.
The Deathstrike Missile is a blast weapon according to the Errata, so it can never hit Zooming Flyers.

Page 81: "shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as snap shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule)" (bold added for emphasis)
Page 81, top left: "Flyers can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each shooting phase. They don't have to use the Skyfire special rule, but if they do, all weapons they fire that turn are treated as having the Skyfire special rule."
Page 42: (SKYFIRE) "A model with this special rule (...) fires using it's normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at flyers (...) Unless it also has the Interceptor special rule, it can only fire Snap Shots against other targets."
Page 13: "any shooting attack that does not use a ballistic skill (...) cannot be "fired" as a Snap Shot" (quotation marks on "fired" direct from the rulebook).


Below is my original post, for legacy reasons


Take things like the Necron's Death Ray or the Eldar's D-Cannon. Both of these weapons don't roll to hit, but instead draw a line and automatically hit any models it touches. So, can you use these weapons against zooming flyers?
I've only just read the 6th edition rulebook and may be missing something, but I don't see why not (probably I just skipped some important rule).

[kjolnir]

Take things like the Necron's Death Ray or the Eldar's D-Cannon. Both of these weapons don't roll to hit, but instead draw a line and automatically hit any models it touches. So, can you use these weapons against zooming flyers?
I've only just read the 6th edition rulebook and may be missing something, but I don't see why not (probably I just skipped some important rule).

Good question. Template weapons are out, but these really aren't template weapons, just lines that are 1mm wide.

If you roll to hit with anything, you'd resolve using the snap shot rules, but otherwise, I can't really see why auto-hit stuff doesn't hit them. Vector Strikes auto-hit other flyers after all.

[Nemo]

Against zooming flyers, you can only take Snap Shots. The Snap Shots rule states that weapons that do not roll to hit cannot take Snap Shots. As in, cannot be fired if they would be fired as Snap Shots.

-Kristian

[kjolnir]

Against zooming flyers, you can only take Snap Shots. The Snap Shots rule states that weapons that do not roll to hit cannot take Snap Shots. As in, cannot be fired if they would be fired as Snap Shots.

-Kristian

So then the question becomes not one of whether or not it auto-hits, but whether or not it is a shooting attack?

Got it.

So shooting attacks that do not roll to hit, regardless of whether or not they use a template, cannot target Swooping/Zooming Flyers.

Vector Strike is still legal, however, since the rules specifically mention it as being a legal attack, despite the fact that it counts as a shooting attack for the purposes of determining how many shooting attacks you get in the shooting phase.

Also, what about Psychic shooting attacks that auto-hit?

[JamesP]

Against zooming flyers, you can only take Snap Shots. The Snap Shots rule states that weapons that do not roll to hit cannot take Snap Shots. As in, cannot be fired if they would be fired as Snap Shots.

-Kristian

Does that apply to a Doomscythe that uses its ability to have the Skyfire rule when firing its weapons?

On page 81, at the top of the left-hand column, it says that you can only take Snap Shots against Zooming flyers, as you say, unless you have the Skyfire rule. It also says, as another posted noted, that you can never use Template, Blast or Large Blast weapons against Zooming flyers.

Also on page 81, at the top of the right-hand column, it says that a flyer can choose to use the Skyfire rule for its weapons when it shoots them.

So that would mean that a Doomscythe could use the Skyfire rule to fire at a Zooming flyer using its normal BS and not the Snap Shot process.

In such circumstances, could it fire its Death Ray at a Zooming flyer as:

- it can use the Skyfire rule to allow it to fire using its normal BS rather than Snap Shots;

- only Snap Shots prohibit the use of weapons that do not roll to hit and the Doomscythe is using its normal BS, and not Snap Shots; and

- while you cannot use Template, Blast or Large Blast weapons against a Zooming flyer, the Death Ray is none of these.

So what do you think? I freely admit that, as a Necron player, I like the idea of a Death Ray lashing out and frying some Storm Ravens/ Talons but I'd be equally happy just shocking them out of the sky with Tesla.

I also admit that I hate writing 'zooming'. GW, why couldn't you have thought of another name for this mechanic?!

[kjolnir]

Does that apply to a Doomscythe that uses its ability to have the Skyfire rule when firing its weapons?

Anything with Skyfire can shoot at a Swooping/Zooming Flyer as if it were not Swooping/Zooming. So I think this would work, so long as the weapon must first roll to-hit.

- while you cannot use Template, Blast or Large Blast weapons against a Zooming flyer, the Death Ray is none of these.

Does the Death Ray roll to-hit?

[Nemo]

Psychic shooting attacks are still shooting attacks. I would say that auto-hitting psychic shooting attacks still come under Snap Fire rules, and thus cannot be used against zooming flyers.

As for the Doomscythe... The Skyfire rules only state that you can take your shots at your regular BS. The Skyfire rules do not say that these are not still Snap Shots. If they are still Snap Shots, then you cannot use auto-hitting shooting attacks.

I would suggest that both RAW and RAI suggests that the Doomscythe cannot fire its Death Ray at a zooming flyer.

-Kristian

[JamesP]

Does the Death Ray roll to-hit?

Nope, you just pick a spot and then draw a line of death ray goodness (TM) to a point 2D6 away.

[DarkLink]

Can you snap fire auto-hits? If so, then it's perfectly legal, and I don't recall any restriction on being able to do it.

[Nemo]

Darklink:

Against zooming flyers, you can only take Snap Shots. The Snap Shots rule states that weapons that do not roll to hit cannot take Snap Shots. As in, cannot be fired if they would be fired as Snap Shots.