You CAN Have a Fully Reserved Drop Pod Army

[xilton]

There's another thread somewhere about this I saw earlier on how reserves will work and they were hammering at it pretty good. Might want to check it out.

[Chris Copeland]

The short answer is that this works for Drop Pods and not for other transports because DPs are dedicated transports. You will have to count up non dedicated transports and other units on a unit by unit basis. You don't have to do that with non dedicated transports.

It is clear that I don't have to separate my troops from their pods because of the dedicated transport rule. There is nothing that forces me to separate my troops from their pods. Those units don't count toward the total because of the rule about units that start in reserve.

I could put my troops in a Rhino. Rhino+troops=1 unit. If I had three of those I could keep two in reserve and field one. Troop+Stormraven=2 units... you start getting into the math where someone is going to have to start on the table. Cheers...

PS BC, I can kind of see your reasoning but I'm afraid that, in light of the rules so clearly laid out in the BRB, that it just doesn't stand up. Cheers!

[BS FADE]

I keep getting hung up on the "Players can choose to put ...."

Things that have to be put in reserve don’t count I understand that. But nothing in the dedicated transport rules say anything about embarking changes the fact that you choose to put them there as a part of your deployment. It now counts as one unit, but nothing says you ignore the fact you chose to embark the squad and now can ignore them for reserved units. 40k is stuck in a permissive system.

The rule declaring them as one unit for deployment purposes is from what I understand, clarifying that a unit and its dedicated transports count as one for the number of units you put in reserve. It's not talking about what you ignore.

Simply put I see a drop pod has to go in reserve, but I see you choose to embark the squad. Just like how I see a flyer has to be in reserve, but you choose to embark a squad.

Regardless of the counting purposes for half your forces, both these situations have things that have to be put in reserve and then have units that tag along that can’t be deployed on the table. And if the rules work that way for drop pods, than it would work that way for flyer transports because your ignore the units that have to be in reserve. This still circles back to you ultimately choosing for them to be stuck in reserve though, not them truly being forced into reserves.

I honestly believe a FAQ, or I don’t know clearer rules, are the only way you can justify being able to ignore one means but not the other.

[Gloomfang]

As of right now the only pods that REQUIRE the troops be in the pods are the Nid's. For years people have been dropping empty drop pods on the table to block LOS or becasue they would rather put them on the table. If you can send down an empty pod then the unit in it is NOT forced to go into reserve.
Mycetic spores can NOT be sent down empty. The troops are FORCED to be in the pod.
You can't say one game that units have to be in the pod and then put them on the table the next game and send the pods down empty.
Those are the rules. Sorry you don't like them.
Nids can't Null depoly either now as we don't have drop pod assault and autolose turn 1.

[BS FADE]

I remembered reading that stupid ruling for tyranids, I just didnt feel like going back to GWs site until they send me my dam rule book.

It came out the same time they said bug independent characters couldnt attach to squads in pods right?

[Gloomfang]

I remembered reading that stupid ruling for tyranids, I just didnt feel like going back to GWs site until they send me my dam rule book.

It came out the same time they said bug independent characters couldnt attach to squads in pods right?

Yes. Until them we were sending down empty pods with venomcannons to block fire lanes (like people do with SM drop pods). The fluff said that the troops are grown inside the pods on the way down so the made the rules so we can't add primes to units in spore pods.

And I don't know why people are talking about this at all. Lets look at the FAQ for Space Marines.

Q: Can you use a drop pod on its own with no squad inside?
A: Yes you can.

There. Done. The drop pods do not count towards the total units in reserve, but as they can be sent down empty the squad inside does becasue they are not forced to stay in the drop pod.

So if you want to drop pod in 3 units, you need 3 units on the table. Not for the 3 drop pods, but for the squads that are in them.

[kjolnir]

I keep getting hung up on the "Players can choose to put ...."

Things that have to be put in reserve don’t count I understand that. But nothing in the dedicated transport rules say anything about embarking changes the fact that you choose to put them there as a part of your deployment. It now counts as one unit, but nothing says you ignore the fact you chose to embark the squad and now can ignore them for reserved units. 40k is stuck in a permissive system.

Huh?

Drop pods taken as dedicated transports means your unit is with them when it deploys. Which means it is in Reserves.

If you're referencing the "choice" players made to assault with an empty Drop Pod or not...well...that's a bit of a stretch IMO. That's some pretty big logic kung fu. A plain, reasonable reading of the rule would conclude that a unit held is reserve by virtue of its Dedicated Transport does not count against the 50% you are allowed.

[Gloomfang]

If you're referencing the "choice" players made to assault with an empty Drop Pod or not...well...that's a bit of a stretch IMO. That's some pretty big logic kung fu. A plain, reasonable reading of the rule would conclude that a unit held is reserve by virtue of its Dedicated Transport does not count against the 50% you are allowed.

That is great news then. That means that my genestealers that I chose to outflank don't count either. Or my Ymgarls (yes they can actully start on the table, its not required that they be dorment).

Until there is a FAQ that says squads must deploy with thier drop pod (like it states for mycetic spores) they are not forced to start in reserves.

There is no such thing as Null Depolyment anymore. Sorry.

[BS FADE]

Huh?

Drop pods taken as dedicated transports means your unit is with them when it deploys. Which means it is in Reserves.

If you're referencing the "choice" players made to assault with an empty Drop Pod or not...well...that's a bit of a stretch IMO. That's some pretty big logic kung fu. A plain, reasonable reading of the rule would conclude that a unit held is reserve by virtue of its Dedicated Transport does not count against the 50% you are allowed.

Not true, if it was i would have kept quiet. You have to declare your starting embarked or disembarked with your own dedacted transports at the beinging of the game. You choose, not you are.

If you can find something that says otherwise that would add to this conversation a lot.

[Gloomfang]

Not true, if it was i would have kept quiet. You have to declare your starting embarked or disembarked with your own dedacted transports at the beinging of the game. You choose, not you are.

If you can find something that says otherwise that would add to this conversation a lot.

The issue is the rule in question is a bit vauge (and needs a FAQ fast). Take the following army for example:

1 squad in Razorback(Dedicated)
1 squad in Landraider (Non-Dedicated)
1 Dev Squad
1 squad in drop pod (Dedicated)
1 StormTalon
1 Assualt squad with jump packs.

Ok. The person decides that he is going to not put his squad in the razorback. The Stormtalon is a flyer and must start in reserve. The drop pod and squad is in reserve.

The person is debating putting the land raider in reserve, but can he?

Well the squad and razorback are deploied on the table sepratly, but count as one unit for calculating reserves.
The Talon doesn't count because it is forced to.
The drop pod is forced to, but not the squad. However they count as one unit so they are in reserve.
1 assault unit with jump packs in reserve so they can deepstrike.
Dev Squad on the table.

So we have unit in 1 reserve and 2 units on the table.

Now the land raider is NOT a dedicated transport. So it counts as one and the squad in it counts as one.
So now trying to put the land raider with squad in reserve will put you at 3 units in reserve and 2 units on the table.

You can not reserve both the land raider and squad in it with this list. You need one more unit on the table.

EDIT: Got trapped in my own logic there... I guess that the squad does count as reserved for free. If the unit deploys on the table and not in the drop pod they still count as one unit and that unit does not count towards the total of units either on the board OR in reserves. The only issue is the 50% of nothing (as technically there is nothing in reserves OR on the table) for calculating the amout of units that can be in reserves.

Consider my objection taken back.