Has GW given up on selling minatures?

[Inafmy]

It just hit me...

GW has beat a full blow retreat from game balance with the latest 40K rules set, vearing from organized competitive play towards their new "atmospheric vision"... (yeah, I know this is the Fantasy forum, but bear with me)

They have ended the tournament circuit and organized play feeding into the Throne of Skulls...

They have ended prize support for independent retailer tournaments...

Most cities do not have a GW store and rely on a local retailer who likely also provides the in-store tournament and playing space...

They have failed to put a nail in Chapterhouse's coffin despite their law suit, and alternate sources of miniatures are ACTIVELY trying to undercut them (as an example, Mantic sells 10 skeleton warriors in ranks for under 6 dollars, a fraction of what as many Citadel minis will cost you)...

All the tightly controlled venues in which they could restrict you to Citadel minis are being actively killed by their own hand... how now do they intend to incentivize Citadel minis as the choice for Fantsay and 40K? Why bother at all? No venue in which the majority of players are active has any reason give a flying **** whether your minis are Citadel anymore...

They can no longer demand Citadel minis in tourneys they won't support and no longer have their own major tournament circuit to restrict... and GW storefronts that would want you to only play Citadel minis are unknown to most gamers.

This is no rant on my part, but rather genuine perplexity. What are they thinking? What is their end game? Did they think this through?

Is there anyone with some insight into their reasoning behind their latest moves? Are any of my premises totally wrong?

[Wolfshade]

They have ended prize support for independent retailer tournaments...

This was always a good will gesture and given that the players of those tournaments were already GW subscribers there was no advertising benefit and in a time of economic down turn such "good will" gestures are cut. I am also not sure what the objective of providing prize support for such tournaments was.

Most cities do not have a GW store and rely on a local retailer who likely also provides the in-store tournament and playing space...

This is perhaps more to do with market share, for instnace in the UK most cities do have a GW store, in Canada this isn't the case as they do not have such a large player base and the population distribution would make it quite difficult, although North American sales are now slightly more than UK, they are still less than Europe.

With regard to the Chapterhouse thing part of the issue is that under British Law they have to challenge all suspected IP violators otherwise they are giving them license to operate which diluites the brand and makes other perhaps more desireable IP/copyright charges harder to persue.

With regard to trying to make all of the products in your army being Citadel/Forgeworld, well it is their game and it is their rules. People are prepared for this look at how Apple works, unless its through iTunes you can't get it.

GW has always been a minis company and their rules encourage you to purchase the latest minis this is where their revenue comes from, not from veteran plays who have every option from every army book so that they can field any sort of army, but from new purchasers be it a new player or a vet picking up the latest toy. The rules while essential serve as a vehicle to deliever their main objective. The more narrative the setting, the more invested the player becomes and this leads to a hightened engagement with the hobby in a way that "good will" does, but perhaps in a deeper sense.

[pauljc]

It just hit me...

GW has beat a full blow retreat from game balance with the latest 40K rules set, vearing from organized competitive play towards their new "atmospheric vision"... (yeah, I know this is the Fantasy forum, but bear with me)

Having worked for GW, and spoken with the likes of Blanch, Priestly, Anderson, etc, I can say that it has never been about organised play. Competitive play is a side-effect, a bonus if you will. Naturally they're aware of it, and fit it into their business, but it has never been a core part of their philosophy.

They have ended the tournament circuit and organized play feeding into the Throne of Skulls...

They have ended prize support for independent retailer tournaments...

Most cities do not have a GW store and rely on a local retailer who likely also provides the in-store tournament and playing space...

As said, the freebies were always a goodwill gesture. But as an independant retailer, as far as I am aware, those that utilise the module stock system are given a certain amount of extra bucks for extra support.

They have failed to put a nail in Chapterhouse's coffin despite their law suit, and alternate sources of miniatures are ACTIVELY trying to undercut them (as an example, Mantic sells 10 skeleton warriors in ranks for under 6 dollars, a fraction of what as many Citadel minis will cost you)...

The difference here being that GW's skellies are highly detailed miniatures, while Mantic's are boardgame quality - at best - or perhaps more easily likened to GW's plastic quality from 1985, when skellies probably cost the same.

All the tightly controlled venues in which they could restrict you to Citadel minis are being actively killed by their own hand... how now do they intend to incentivize Citadel minis as the choice for Fantsay and 40K? Why bother at all? No venue in which the majority of players are active has any reason give a flying **** whether your minis are Citadel anymore...

They can no longer demand Citadel minis in tourneys they won't support and no longer have their own major tournament circuit to restrict... and GW storefronts that would want you to only play Citadel minis are unknown to most gamers.

This is no rant on my part, but rather genuine perplexity. What are they thinking? What is their end game? Did they think this through?

Is there anyone with some insight into their reasoning behind their latest moves? Are any of my premises totally wrong?

Can't really say much about their reasoning, I can only make educated guesses. But considering the company has been in operation for what, 30ish years now (considering they sell nerdy little plastic soldiers), and don't show much signs of slowing down, you've gotta figure that the management knows what it's doing.

That's good enough for me.

[evcameron]

But considering the company has been in operation for what, 30ish years now (considering they sell nerdy little plastic soldiers), and don't show much signs of slowing down, you've gotta figure that the management knows what it's doing.

Exactly! Everyone likes to second guess their pricing and other decisions, but no one ever stops to think that these people are presumably educated and experienced in retail pricing, and maybe, just maybe, have actually done some research and know better how to make a profit than us on the internet do. And ultimately making a profit is the goal of EVERY public company, and just about every private company, it's not like other gaming companies are different than GW in that respect.

[Tepogue]

Why is it so hard for people to understand GW is a minatures company first and game company second? For Fantasy the advent of Steadfast alone caused a huge jump in model sales because people had to increase unit sizes. No longer can you just buy 5 Knights and call it a day. You instead are buying extra boxes of infantry to push your core infantry up to 30+ models. Add in new kits for each army they have redone and poof more model sales. Game Balance is a vague tertiary goal at best.

For 40k and the new 6th edition. Guess what? Allies and Flyers are going to be the 2 biggest factors in model sales for at least the next fiscal year maybe further than that. Suddenly all the 40k armies but one have access to other Codexes. Guess what most people won't stop at just 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Heavy, 1 Fast Attack. They will end up making a second army, which possibily opens up even more Allies. Then throw in flyers, which based on my limited experience really need another flyer to effectively take them out. This feeds back to If your army doesn't have a flyer then you can probably get one through an ally. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Game balance is never the goal. GW is more like an arms dealer selling to both sides. Enemy Flyers got you down? Can't handle Necrons zooming over the battlefield. Then buy into the Mobile Infantr(IG)y, For just 1 Command Squad, 1 Vet Squad you can get 3 Vendettas to shoot down those pains in your rear.

[T-ORK-amada]

As a TO, I have yet to hear that GW has stop retailer tournament support. Is this new? Rumors I hear are that they are actually going to increase it.

[Bigred]

Prize support to retailers has been reorganized in the North American market using a new system that on average nets out to a fraction of what it was. This was rolled out roughly 6 months ago.

Also, on the point of Mantic vs GW on quality. Yes GW is well ahead of Mantic, but the skeletons mentioned are a bad example. Undead are perhap's Mantic's strongest range, while being one of GW's weakest. Those GW skeletons are ancient and atrocious.

[wittdooley]

Prize support to retailers has been reorganized in the North American market using a new system that on average nets out to a fraction of what it was. This was rolled out roughly 6 months ago.

Also, on the point of Mantic vs GW on quality. Yes GW is well ahead of Mantic, but the skeletons mentioned are a bad example. Undead are perhap's Mantic's strongest range, while being one of GW's weakest. Those GW skeletons are ancient and atrocious.

Haha, I thought the same BR. The Skellies/VC are Mantics BEST range by far.

Now if you want to compare the new High Elf kits to the Mantic elves.......

[Inafmy]

While I appreciate all the insights provided above, it really does not address the problem I see.

Yes, it is the party line that GW's minis are hands-down the best. But one does not need "hands down the best" to play these games even if you drink the cool laid and fervently believe that.

Let me repeat that: The best is not required. Sufficient is. I think driving a Hummer would be the best....I drive a Ford Neon. It is sufficient.

The problem I see is that there were many playing venues, previously, that were incentivized to restrict play in events to Citadel minis. "No Neons here... bring your Hummer or don't come at all."

Now that is coming to a store near you. Our local stores have had their prize support withdrawn... and don't see any point in restricting Tournaments to Citadel minis any longer. (This has already bled over into in-store casual play... Out of nowhere, Mantic has taken over a shelf of its own).

'Ard Boyz is dead along with their ability there to push use of Citadel minis...

We also have a local GT that fed into the Throne of Skulls. They will likely go on... they've been at it forever, yet there is no incentive to restrict to Citadel models any longer, either.

So, unless your opponents are model snobs who will not play the unwashed off-brand users or you play in an actual (and rare) GW storefront, what's your motivation?

The great mass of players are not going to pay three times the bill for the same number of models... they are not model snobs, nor are they incompetant at personal finances...

You have already met these players... In my experience, the fielding of an entirely painted army is a rarity. Why? Because Citadel minis are required, but painting is not. What they field is sufficient. And, now, not even the Citadel brand is required. This is a problem for a company that makes its money off the models...

What's the motivation?

I am not making some dumb "those models are better than these models" argument. Like whatever you like, aesthetically speaking... This is a business model problem.

Granted, maybe I am seeing a business model problem where there isn't one. Maybe like FASA, TSR, and George Armstrong Custer before them, there is no need to worry because they are professionals at the top of their game and know exactly what they are doing...

Then again, maybe not...

[Tepogue]

You place far, far too much importance on tournament players. Ask you local store how many customers does he have VS how many Tournament players. If the ratio is even 10 to 1. That would be 80 customers to 8 who attend the store's tournament. Collectively the non-tournament players have more power. I was the game manager for a Hobbytown USA, that had game space(we had 3 permanant tables set up in a back room) and 1 table on the floor, plus on Saturdays we had an empty store front next door we used with another 8 tables available for tournamnets. I surpervised the ordering knew the customers and my ratio was close to 20 to 1. My painters, collectors, and casual players might only spend 1/2 what a tournament player spent on a per person basis, but all that means is that 2 casuals = 1 tournamnet player. At 20 to 1 ratio the casuals were more valuable $$$-wise. They didn't restrct their purchases to only "good" models or the most effective WAAC army list. They tended to buy one of everything.

See my above post, it's all about model sales.

In the GW big view the casual players/painters/collectors are their cash cow and the recent changes in both systems are aimed at them buying more models.