Look Out Sir! confusion

[Col.Straken]

To be honest, mixed saves or not, your wound allocation is exactly the same. Only diff is that with all the same save, you're not stuck to roll 1 dice at a time because 1 or more dudes closest don't have the same save. That's it, nothing else to it. Rule as intended and NOT OP like some are trying to do and save their precious 2W models. And just to make sure, I play GK. I wish this would be different but it's not. People are trying to make this rule stronger then it is in reality. The rules are clear and mixed saves do not affect whatsoever look out sir in anyway no matter how you read it. You do not allocate the wounds to all the models if they are different. The closest model will be allocated "ALL" wounds one by one as long as he survives. For each wound that was not saved on IC or C, on a role of 2+/4+ (IC/C), you can put that wound on someone else and that someone else does not have a save of any type possible. That's it. Nothing more simpler then that. And that's how the rule is not matter how you try to read it. It is very clear. It is made to save characters. The one saving him, will get the full hit no saves.

So, according to you this will make it fairer? What if I stick my 2+/3++ Necron Lord as the closest model with 20 4+ warriors behind?

Well according to you, I get a 2+/3++ save (depending on AP) and if I fail it I can "look out" onto a 4+ save model (but he doesn't get a save). So to make the game fairer they let me give my Necron Warriors a 2+/3++ save?

And that is why in a mixed save unit you allocate wounds first and do any LOS rolls before you take a save, so that te warriors are taking their 4+ save and not the Lords 2+/3++

[xilton]

I see what you mean. When I said more fair, I was mostly talking about wound allocation to paladins or units of the same type where they get an auto wound and not get the chance to save it. As for the rules, you can't have 2 ways of doing things. A rule is a rule and in the multy save rules, nothing mentions how to treat look out sir and the look out sir rule is quite clear about rolling after saves.

Seems we have a dilemma on this rule for sure. Both versions of the interpretation of the rules people make are pretty solid with good points. I'm guessing they will have to FAQ it. I hate this rule period though. If you are a marine, you will never coward yourself into the unit to not get hurt. You were trained to be a fearless fighting machine lol

[celestialatc]

So, according to you this will make it fairer? What if I stick my 2+/3++ Necron Lord as the closest model with 20 4+ warriors behind?

Well according to you, I get a 2+/3++ save (depending on AP) and if I fail it I can "look out" onto a 4+ save model (but he doesn't get a save). So to make the game fairer they let me give my Necron Warriors a 2+/3++ save?

And that is why in a mixed save unit you allocate wounds first and do any LOS rolls before you take a save, so that te warriors are taking their 4+ save and not the Lords 2+/3++

You don't HAVE to take the look out, sir rolls. You could just let the Necron lord take all the damage and hope his armor and invul saves...save him...

[xilton]

Yea but if you are like me last game, I lost 3 wounds on 13 shots on draigo 1st round of shooting. d'oh

[celestialatc]

Yea but if you are like me last game, I lost 3 wounds on 13 shots on draigo 1st round of shooting. d'oh

That's unfortunate....but I hope the Paladin squad avenged him!

[xilton]

That's unfortunate....but I hope the Paladin squad avenged him!

nope, i ended up in cc (after a movement error I made) with a NDK against 5 BA termies with hammer and shield + libby with shield. out of the cc, only draigo came out with his 1 wound. I think this was my worst game with GK lol nothing was working at all.

[Col.Straken]

You don't HAVE to take the look out, sir rolls. You could just let the Necron lord take all the damage and hope his armor and invul saves...save him...

No you dot have to, but my point was you can't take the best save and then LOS

[Aventine]

I see what you mean. When I said more fair, I was mostly talking about wound allocation to paladins or units of the same type where they get an auto wound and not get the chance to save it. As for the rules, you can't have 2 ways of doing things. A rule is a rule and in the multy save rules, nothing mentions how to treat look out sir and the look out sir rule is quite clear about rolling after saves.

Seems we have a dilemma on this rule for sure. Both versions of the interpretation of the rules people make are pretty solid with good points. I'm guessing they will have to FAQ it. I hate this rule period though. If you are a marine, you will never coward yourself into the unit to not get hurt. You were trained to be a fearless fighting machine lol

Both sides interpretations are not solid and you haven't made any good points. We have provided page numbers and explained it quite clearly, you have just made random sweeping statements like "As for the rules, you can't have 2 ways of doing things." It doesn't need an FAQ, it just needs you to read the rules without your preconception of how it works.

[xilton]

I did mention the same pages as everybody else, there's nothing that says LO'S must be done before hand so even if you mention that page, it doesn't change anything. More so when the allocation for diff saves has been covered in another thread about the dude in front taking up everything until he is dead (not considering LO,S here). There is absolutely nothing that says LO'S will be taken before in the case of different saves an LO'S is quite clear, it's after. I do agree that both sides have their reasons and both think they see it the good way as it often happens and neither will budge. Which is fine. I have no problem with what people think for sure and I certainly don't want to insult anyone but I just simply don't see it the same way and vice versa. This is one of those I really hope they FAQ cause it does change taking wounds. If I'm right or wrong it doesn't matter, I just want it clarified and right now, like the opposing players, we both think we are right so.... can't fight on that really. Have to wait.

[Rapture]

In this case, passing the huge benefits that an independent character can offer to an entire unit (think 2+ model accompanied by a unit of dirt cheap wounds - like a crisis suit with a unit of 10 kroot) is so significant and unprecedented that the burden of arguing for it must be higher than the burden of arguing against it. Anything outside of direct language supporting rolling a mixed save and then taking the LO,S roll is simply not sufficient.

This reminds me of people arguing that dreadknights could shunt as a scout move. The idea of it just reeks.