Red Wolves

[greendestiny]

I know there is some crossover between users here and in other forums. So I appologize if you have read this from me before.

I am working on building a Red Wolves army. There isn't really much background available for them so I was wondering what your thoughts on them are? I am not good at building DIY chapters.

[Black Hydra]

Man, not much on these guys. I'd venture to guess that they are at least of Blood Angel descent. While the word "Wolves" would imply some sort of connection to Space Wolves, they have no successor chapters of their own. So yeah pretty much all I could find on these guys is this:

"Shadeblight
In 750.M41 the Red Wolves fought Chaos Space Marines of the Night Lords Legion in the Ango sub-sector. Although they stood alone, the Red Wolves were able to prevent the Night Lords capturing the possessed cruiser Shadeblight.

Fourth Quadrant Rebellion
The Chapter deployed in full strength during the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion, playing a crucial role in crushing the insurrection."

From lexicanum.

[Chris*ta]

Man, not much on these guys. I'd venture to guess that they are at least of Blood Angel descent.

I'm curious why you say Blood Angels geneseed. I'm of the opinion that, as the Blood Angels are an aberrant chapter, and therefore not really used as a source of geneseed to make successors, you need a good reason to identify them as the source for a new chapter, and I don't see any evidence in the case of Red Wolves.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

then I'd argue that you should assume Ultramarines heritage for everyone, unless you have REALLY good evidence for another source of geneseed (like, a GW reference to a different source of geneseed, or strong thematic/iconographic similarity). Except maybe for the Imperial Fists, whose geneseed probably make up the vast majority of chapters that aren't Ultramarines.

Sort of on topic, I'd argue for Ultramarines geneseed, on the basis that there's no evidence for anything else.

Actually on topic, I'd read the two pages on Lexicanum that seem relevant:
[url]http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Wolves#.UB0jc3aI2kI[/url]
[url]http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fourth_Quadrant_Rebellion#.UB0kqXaI2kI[/url]

I note the second one mentions a reference to Red Wolves in Imperial Armour 9 on p. 100. Anyone out there have this and wants to share what this is, is it just the mention of the chapter name, or is there anything else about them there?

[Black Hydra]

Part of the reason I say Blood Angels is because of their color scheme. I know that doesn't sound very convincing but considering GW loves to color code stuff A LOT, it wouldn't surprise me. Also their homeworld is called Bloodfall. I know not all super aggressive chapters (i.e. Carcharadons are supposedly of Raven Guard descent, but are extremely violent) have ties to Blood Angels but it's not farfetched in this case.

And Blood Angels do have successors.

Straight from the Lexicanum:
"Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Blood Legion, Blood Swords (Claimed otherwise in Codex: Blood Angels 5th ed.), Exsanguinators, Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Knights of Blood, Knights Sanguine, Lamenters, Red Wings, Templars of Blood"

And just to throw in other possibilities, the Black Templar have rumored successors. The White Templar and Red Templar being the ones thought to be of BT descent. While the Ultrasmurfs have the most successors, only the Space Wolves don't have any whatsoever. Probably why they still are a Legion with 10 Grand Companies comprising of 1000 marines each.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

40k has lots of small forces that we're only given a couple of small details about - I'm pretty sure they're intended to be hooks for us to latch on to and expand into something larger, so you can take them in pretty much any direction you want!

And while the Space Wolves lack successor Chapters, one White Dwarf noted that sometimes companies of Space Wolves go "rogue" - they remain loyal to the Emperor and Imperium, but renounce loyalty to Logan Grimnar. It said that some of these may be self-sustaining, but I'd assume they'd run into the same problems that the failed Successor Chapters did.

[Eberk]

I note the second one mentions a reference to Red Wolves in Imperial Armour 9 on p. 100. Anyone out there have this and wants to share what this is, is it just the mention of the chapter name, or is there anything else about them there?

Not much there... Only mentioned that the Imperium send several chapters to pacify the quadrant and end the fighting and 4 chapters played a major part: Dark Angels, Raptors, Skull Bearers and Red Wolves. (these chapters fought in full strength)

they are mentioned in the "Selected Battle Honours" of the Raptors Chapter.

[Black Hydra]

And while the Space Wolves lack successor Chapters, one White Dwarf noted that sometimes companies of Space Wolves go "rogue" - they remain loyal to the Emperor and Imperium, but renounce loyalty to Logan Grimnar. It said that some of these may be self-sustaining, but I'd assume they'd run into the same problems that the failed Successor Chapters did.

You're right. This rogue SW company for example looks awesome: [url]http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrar's_Dark_Wolves[/url] I'm almost tempted to start an army for them using CSM rules but alas I have my heart set on my Alpha Legion army.

[Chris*ta]

And Blood Angels do have successors.

I know BAs have successors. My point is their geneseed isn't used for new chapters any more. Ref: C:SM p. 24)

Which I take to mean, more or less, their only successors are those that are already identified as such. I know the BA codex has something about rumours that their geneseed may still get used for shadowy blah-blah-blah, but, that just doesn't float my boat somehow.

That, and all the BA's successors, have Blood or Flesh in their title.

Dammit ... Shut up, Lamenters. They probably don't invite you to the family reunions, anyway

[Chris*ta]

40k has lots of small forces that we're only given a couple of small details about - I'm pretty sure they're intended to be hooks for us to latch on to and expand into something larger, so you can take them in pretty much any direction you want!

And while the Space Wolves lack successor Chapters, one White Dwarf noted that sometimes companies of Space Wolves go "rogue" - they remain loyal to the Emperor and Imperium, but renounce loyalty to Logan Grimnar. It said that some of these may be self-sustaining, but I'd assume they'd run into the same problems that the failed Successor Chapters did.

You're right. This rogue SW company for example looks awesome: [url]http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Skyrar's_Dark_Wolves[/url] I'm almost tempted to start an army for them using CSM rules but alas I have my heart set on my Alpha Legion army.

Not sure how loyal those guys stayed; that link pictures them with an 8 pointed star on the greave. Just sayin'

They do seem cool though. I've never felt any real desire to do Space Wolves or Grey Knights simply because you get so little say in what they look like or who they are. (I actually have the same complaint about Warmahordes, but that's for another thread.)

@ Black Hydra: Maybe you could do an allied contingent of Dark Wolves to go with your Alpha Legion guys. Not necessarily using the allies rules (not sure but I don't think you can ally SWs to CSM ) but just buying them out of C:CSM. It's a good excuse to do some guys in different colours and/or a different "style" of army.

Which is an idea that I think is massively underused by players, e.g. doing an army of IG with (say) Cadian infantry, but tanks from an entirely different regiment, like Krieg.

Also, good choice on Alpha Legion, I think their my favourite legion too. I like the whole neglected-youngest-child vibe they have going.

Also also, it's very late, and I may be sharing too much for a toy soldiers' forum

[Black Hydra]

Woops misunderstood what Rev meant about those chapters. I thought he meant really renegade Wolves.

Since I'm getting the starter set I'm including some Fallen Angels in my Chaos Army. I'll probably use some CSM units and model them as Dark Wolves like you said.

And yes, Alpha Legion are awesome! We are Legion!

Edit: Also I won't hijack this thread anymore. Sorry OP!