Monstrous creatures and close combat?

[papa smurf]

Hey all, just a thing I noticed in the new rulebook about monstrous creatures. In the unit type entry, nothing is said about the AP value of monstrous creatures; however, they do have the 'Smash' special rule.

Smash attacks have the AP2 characteristic, but this is obviously only if one decides to use smash. Does that mean units fighting monstrous creatures benefit from their armor saves against a monstrous creature if it is just using its regular attacks?

Obviously this is a moot point for some monstrous creatures with equipment, like a Hive Tyrant with a bonesword, since boneswords explicitly ignore armor saves. But let's say a carnifex, whose close combat upgrades do not mention ignoring armor saves, gets in a fight and decides not to use smash attacks. does that mean even the lowliest ork boy will get his 6+ save? I feel this might have been an oversight by GW and makes monstrous creatures significantly weaker against non-vehicles.

[Nachodragon]

Smash grants AP 2 all the time. Smash also grants a second type of attack the MC can use.

[papa smurf]

oh man, looks like I just read it wrong! I thought the AP2 only came when you decided to halve the attacks and double the strength. Thanks for the clarification!

[Demonus]

Poor MC got hosed. I hope the new Wraithlord gets a 40pt decrease in cost.

[Archon Charybdis]

Poor MC got hosed. I hope the new Wraithlord gets a 40pt decrease in cost.

Cause yeah, that's not a huge overreaction. It's not like MC's benefit from area terrain as infantry now, or picked up Hammer of Wrath or anything. If there's something to hope for on the Wraithlord (or Eldar in general) it's that their weapon prices finally get put in line and not be mind-boggingly expensive. 40pts for a Brightlance? Long Fangs are almost assuredly underpriced at 20 for a Lascannon, but BA devastators pay 25 for it, and all around it's a better gun.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

Poor MC got hosed.

My FMC in my Flying Circus disagree with you.

[evilamericorp]

Poor MC got hosed. I hope the new Wraithlord gets a 40pt decrease in cost.

The hell you say. MCs only got buffs this edition, and wraithlords' base point cost is fine. If anything needs to get cheaper, it's carnifexes.

[Archon Charybdis]

The hell you say. MCs only got buffs this edition, and wraithlords' base point cost is fine. If anything needs to get cheaper, it's carnifexes.

Indeed. I think the Wraithlord's base cost is just fine, it's just the weapon options are way out of whack. I've been running a Wraith Wall list since my Mechdar kind of took it in the pants, and it's been performing very well. Also, without a shiny new Trygon kit to sell next codex, it's entirely possible the Carnifex will go back to being affordable and useful.

[Tynskel]

the carnifex is totally affordable for the kind of power you are getting. To put it in ork: It'll Krump 'eads.

[Defenestratus]

The hell you say. MCs only got buffs this edition, and wraithlords' base point cost is fine. If anything needs to get cheaper, it's carnifexes.

Well except for the whole going at I1 when charging through terrain.

That really sucks for Wraithlords.