Touching the third rail. Again.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I have a friend who has an I-Guard army with a large contingent of Black penal conscripts. Whenever he deploys them he announces "Operation 'Get-Behind-Darky' is now commencing!" We keep telling him he needs to remake his Commissar to be Cartman (currently it's cobra commander).

I appreciate the South Park reference, but that's getting a bit off. If I didn't get the reference it'd sound pretty horrific!

This, on the other hand is not racist.
Poking fun at a culture is not the same as racism, and it's amazing how many people don't really get that.

I haven't heard this phrased so well before. People failing to distinguish between culture and race is a helluva a problem.

while belonging to a sexual minorities is something you can choose to belong or not .

I'm not being aggressive about this, but it really isn't a choice. The various conservative or church figures who're found to be gay, then dragged through the mud - I can quite confidently say they never chose that, to live a life tormented because they were raised being told that part of who they are is fundamentally "wrong".

[the jeske]

It's an off-colour joke that I think falls flat on its face.

I dont understand the difference between a human shield black conscripts and sombrero orcs . There is no difference . It may not be funny to you [fun is question of personal taste and culture one grew up in] , but if it wasnt fun at all then the dude that made them wouldnt have painted them that way.

No, it's not the same. One is "oh look, these aliens are dressed up like the Mexicans you might see in a Western".
The other is "these guys die first, because they're black and therefore worth less. Than the other soldiers. Hurr hurr - racism, get it guys?"

nothing to do with racism . they die first because they are black , their job is to die first . I mean do you send your equivalent of top military/militia school in the first wave ? no you dont . It wouldnt make any sense .

When bigotry is the punchline of a joke, it's a bad joke.

dude in a mexican hat is fun , but dude that is black is not fun . I find both ideas hilarious .
I mean if a black human shield dude is a construct of bigotry , then a pseudo mexican [not even a mexican thats more a copy of a copy of a copy of the XIX US way of seeing mexicans] would have to be just the same .

I don't give a damn what's legal in Russia and what's not - Russia is not somewhere I would look to as a stellar example for observing human rights. It's still legal to do a number of horrible things to people in many Middle Eastern nations - guess what? They're wrong.

I dont know , IMO if americans can think that the way their live is the best way to live in the world and that their own country is the best in the world , why shouldnt a Russian be allowed to think that is country is the best in the world . I dont understand the wrong part. What is wrong is decided by law , if law says something is illegal and wrong , then it is . I for example may find the strange and bewildering abilty for auto destruction of own country by opposing ones own goverment/church/public institutions , that one happens to see in some western countries , but If it is legal there , then strange or not , it cant be wrong there . If it was wrong then the sociaty would no longer exist .

And I don't want to get into a 'debate' with you about whether my sexuality is something I 'chose'. Not here. But if that's what you think then you're pretty damn ignorant on the subject.

I agree there is not much to debate . One cant change ones color , while participation in deviant and unnatural acts can . So I agree with you on that.

I can quite confidently say they never chose that, to live a life tormented because they were raised being told that part of who they are is fundamentally "wrong".

I kind of a dont understand how something like this could happen . How can you be tormented by doing something you know is right . That would require you to either questioning the way you were brought up[which puts you outside of any strucuture , because you would be in constant oposition to how the world you live in is ] or you would have to be a sociopath . but if you were one and on a high rank in the church or politic worlds then how the hell would you be caught . The only way for that to happen is if someone higher up[and your already high so this would realy be have to be someone high ranked] wanted to get rid of you. Now am not going to claim this doesnt happen , because it does . But something like that happening on a regular intervals would give the population a wierd idea that A the higher up dudes dont control stuff[so you dont have to listen to them] B your own structure would fall apart[everyone would think that others are out there to get them and blame what ever they are doing on others] C it would undermine the basic rule of all rules , that one does not let people outside of your circle judge members of your group. how would one rule a country , if people could just change stuff to what ever they feel right now[feel not think] ? it would be chaos . I dont see how a situation like this could happen in a good ruled country or organization.

[Kawauso]

A bunch of bull****.

You have some seriously warped views on the world.

Also, we're done here, thanks.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I dont understand the difference between a human shield black conscripts and sombrero orcs . There is no difference . It may not be funny to you [fun is question of personal taste and culture one grew up in] , but if it wasnt fun at all then the dude that made them wouldnt have painted them that way.

The conscripts focus on race, the orks focus on culture. Somewhat muddied by how often "Mexican" is used as a racial term.

I agree there is not much to debate . One cant change ones color , while participation in deviant and unnatural acts can . So I agree with you on that.

Is the view of this as "deviant" drawn from a religious base? Bear in mind that the same document forbidding homosexuality (Old Testament) also forbids wearing clothes made out of more than one type of fabric, eating shellfish and eating pork. Predates Christ by centuries. Should we allow this to guide us to oppress people?

I kind of a dont understand how something like this could happen . How can you be tormented by doing something you know is right .

They were told from birth that homosexuality is "wrong", so they "know" that. But that doesn't change that they're biologically attracted to men. They can never feel that chemical spark of attraction with their wives, and will everyday feel it towards men, making them feel like a bad person.

This unneeded disgust of themselves makes them all the more driven to speak out against homosexuality, which makes them (pointlessly) hate themselves more. It's pretty damn tragic for themselves, and more importantly the innocent people they hurt.

[Kawauso]

The conscripts focus on race, the orks focus on culture. Somewhat muddied by how often "Mexican" is used as a racial term.

To say nothing of the fact that the Orks' getup isn't making any positive or negative statement about Mexican people or culture. Any more than the uniform of the Vostroyan Firstborn says anything about Russian culture.

The use of an ethnicity segregated within a force specifically for service as cannon fodder, however...

[Lerra]

We have a local IG player with a similar theme (he calls it Operation:Get Behind Darky, too). Only all of the conscripts and regular guardsmen are black, and all of the sergeants and higher-ranked guys are white. I'm not quite sure which army is worse.

[the jeske]

To say nothing of the fact that the Orks' getup isn't making any positive or negative statement about Mexican people or culture. Any more than the uniform of the Vostroyan Firstborn says anything about Russian culture.

I think you are very wrong here . The western culture has a very distinct view on what a XIX century kozak is .
The combrero guy , with guns and tequila is also a cultural construct . It was created in XIX century in the US on one side to explain what they troops are doing in mexico[look at our civilised boys fighting those funny looking odd speaking catholic drunks] . Look at the early 50s cartoons or propaganda posters , the sombrero guys is show to make Americans laugh at Mexicans to show how those Mexicans are worse . The propaganda idea is as negative as the of the "jap"[glasses , stucking out teeth] . The difference between the mexican example or the "jap"[again am not using this as a racial slur but as a propaganda named used by the americans in WWII]is that the kozakz are at best feared and at worse hated. And hatred and fear are a good thing , they make you stronger[for example the unity aspect for the hated/feared group]. Now on the other hand being laughted at is much worse , because it takes you to the level of non-humans[not ment as a race , but as people that are the same as us]. you laugh at children , you laugh of comedians[they are so funy] , when you laugh at a sombrero mexican you make him a someone who stand lower then yourself . Per se that is nothing special , still sucks for those people who are mexicans .

Is the view of this as "deviant" drawn from a religious base?

law codex. I think only in Saudi Arabia and Iran does it come from a religious base , but the problem with those countries is that they dont separate the religion from state , or to be more precise they let religion rule over goverment[Russia for example has it the other way around].

This unneeded disgust of themselves makes them all the more driven to speak out against homosexuality, which makes them (pointlessly) hate themselves more. It's pretty damn tragic for themselves, and more importantly the innocent people they hurt.

wait but your talking about what people think here . that doesnt matter , only what is done is important . Pain in the mind does not exist for a sociaty . Well at least till someone kills himself or other people , but then it automaticly becomes external and is condemned . am having problems with understanding this idea. I mean good for sociaty [which is decied by the goverment] is a good thing . You do what the laws says you can , all is good . The problems start when one acts against the law , but then one no longer tragic or innocent , because that would imply that you were in the right at some point [which one cant be if one goes against the law ].then at best one is a trouble maker and at worse a element that works against the sociaty that lets him/her live .
That is why dont think that there is something like innocent people , when innocent would be understood as not doing anything wrong . Innocents implys that someone is checking if someone did or didnt do something wrong . This very implication [the possibility of doing something wrong or being wrong and the need to check that] means that no person can be innocent. there are only those who were checked and those who werent checked enough .

[Kawauso]

So, cool, the ignore list feature finally came in handy for me today - who knew.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

law codex. I think only in Saudi Arabia and Iran does it come from a religious base , but the problem with those countries is that they dont separate the religion from state , or to be more precise they let religion rule over goverment[Russia for example has it the other way around].

But where did the law against it originate? Why did people believe it "wrong"? In a fair few countries in older times, prior to Old Testament linked religions rising to prominence, it was accepted and often celebrated.

wait but your talking about what people think here . that doesnt matter , only what is done is important . Pain in the mind does not exist for a sociaty . Well at least till someone kills himself or other people , but then it automaticly becomes external and is condemned . am having problems with understanding this idea. I mean good for sociaty [which is decied by the goverment] is a good thing . You do what the laws says you can , all is good . The problems start when one acts against the law , but then one no longer tragic or innocent , because that would imply that you were in the right at some point [which one cant be if one goes against the law ].then at best one is a trouble maker and at worse a element that works against the sociaty that lets him/her live .
That is why dont think that there is something like innocent people , when innocent would be understood as not doing anything wrong . Innocents implys that someone is checking if someone did or didnt do something wrong . This very implication [the possibility of doing something wrong or being wrong and the need to check that] means that no person can be innocent. there are only those who were checked and those who werent checked enough .

Human pain and thought shapes human action, and are therefore as important. The people change to suit a society, but a society must also change to suit the people. It is an equilibrium between two forces, not one controlling the other.

Legality is not always tied to morality. There are many purely senseless, useless laws, and there have been many more that are overturned. That is how a society grows - fighting against unnecessary strictures. Humans make laws to support what is "right". Humans make mistakes. Laws govern humans, but humans govern laws. It's that equilibrium again.

What is more disrupting for a society - gay rights, or suppression? We've seen the problems suppression leads to. Apart from upsetting suppressors, what negative effects would gay rights have?

Also, note that most of those who "snap" under pressure were not doing anything illegal (including in Russia, I believe) - just something that was socially unaccepted. How do your concepts of right/wrong apply to "traditions" like that?

[Necron2.0]

OK, just to put this into perspective, I cannot help but laugh that people who engage in a game that glorifies homicidal mania can get all morally indignant about the imagined color of whom their victims are.

Edit: And as the Right Reverend mentioned, "Operation 'Get-Behind-Darky'" was lifted directly from the movie "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut."