look out sirs- again

[joedrache]

so in a unit of different saves, lets say the 2+ guy is nearest the firer. takes 10 wounds can i just roll saves til i fail one, take that wound, and then look out sir the rest?

or

do i hafta say im gonna take two saves and then look out 8 then takes 2 more?

do i hafta choose before or can i see how it plays out?

why? where does it say it, either way?

thanks

[Bean]

so in a unit of different saves, lets say the 2+ guy is nearest the firer. takes 10 wounds can i just roll saves til i fail one, take that wound, and then look out sir the rest?

or

do i hafta say im gonna take two saves and then look out 8 then takes 2 more?

do i hafta choose before or can i see how it plays out?

why? where does it say it, either way?

thanks

When the unit has different saves, you take the "Look out Sir" rolls before any saves are made. This is because "look out sir" happens when the wounds are allocated, and when a unit has mixed saves, wounds are allocated before you make any saves. So, if you have, say, a Captain in Artificer armor at the head of a Tactical squad (and he's the closest model to the firer):

They roll to hit. They roll to wound.

A wound gets assigned to the Captain.

He chooses whether to make an LOS roll.

If he makes an LoS roll successfully, the wound goes to another model, that model then makes a save.

If he opts not to make an LoS roll or fails his LoS roll, the wound stays on him and he then makes a save.

Repeat until either all of the wounds are resolved or the character is dead (at which point you resolve the remaining wounds against the squad as though they didn't have mixed saves, basically).

You speed up the process by taking LoS rolls in batches equal to the difference between the number of wounds the Captain has remaining and the number of wounds you've allocated to him, until they are equal, at which point you can make saves. Remember, though, that the firer can pick which type of wounds you resolve first. For example:

Assume the firing squad inflicts two plasma gun wounds and ten bolter wounds. The firer chooses to make you resolve the plasma gun first.

You assign both plasma wounds to the Captain. You choose to make an LoS roll for both. One LoS roll succeeds, so that plasma wound goes to a Tactical marine of your choice within 6" of the Captain (and in the same unit). That Marine dies, since he doesn't have a save against plasma.

The remaining plasma wound goes to the Captain, who fails his invulnerable save and takes a wound.

Assign two bolter wounds to the Captain. You choose to make LoS rolls for both, again, and make both. Re-assign those two bolter wounds, and the models to which they are now allocated make saves.

Assign two more bolter wounds to the Captain. You choose to make LoS rolls for both, again. This time you make one and fail one. You reassign one bolter wound for the LoS roll you made, at which point you immediately take a save for the guy you reassigned it to.

You now assign single bolter wounds, one at a time, to the captain, until he either fails an LoS roll or opts not to make one (leaving him with two wounds assigned to him--equal to the number of wounds he has remaining) at which point, he makes two saves.

Keep repeating this process (remember that if he fails a save and drops down to one wound, you can only do one wound against him at a time) until all the wounds are resolved and all saves have been made.

Does that help?

[evilamericorp]

can i just roll saves til i fail one, take that wound, and then look out sir the rest?

Yes.

In this situation, treat each wound separately. You can make saves for your character until he only has one wound remaining and then try to LoS each additional wound to the rest of his squad.

[DarkLink]

Read Bean's post.



In a unit with mixed saves, LOS happens before saves. In a unit with similar saves, LOS happens after saves.

[Bean]

Yes.

In this situation, treat each wound separately. You can make saves for your character until he only has one wound remaining and then try to LoS each additional wound to the rest of his squad.

Edit: Sorry, I misread this the first time.

Yes, you can do this. You can keep making saves on the character one at a time until he only has one wound left, then make Look out Sir rolls for the rest of the wounds. You're entitled to the information generated by each resolution before you make a decision about what to do for the next wound.

Just remember (and this is what I had written previously, so I'm going to leave it here) when the character has a different save than the rest of the unit, you make Look out Sir rolls before saves. This is because the Look out Sir roll happens when the wound is allocated--which happens before the save is made in a unit with mixed saves.

If your character has a different save than the rest of his unit, and he takes a save, he takes the wound (if he fails the save). He can't take a save then make a Look out Sir roll for the unsaved wound if he fails the save. At that point, the wound has already been allocated to him and the opportunity to Look out Sir has passed.

[Chris Copeland]

Read Bean's post.



In a unit with mixed saves, LOS happens before saves. In a unit with similar saves, LOS happens after saves.

Troops, I have to say I LOVE this thread. It seems to simply and easily break down a complicated rule and make it easily understandable. I like it so much that I've printed out a copy of it to keep with my BRB. I have a request: would y'all tell me exactly where to look in the BRB so that I can quickly point to it in case this comes up during a game? I'd like to be able to say:

"In a unit with mixed saves, LOS happens before saves. This is clearly written on page XXX of the BRB. In a unit with similar saves, LOS happens after saves. That is laid out on page XXX of the BRB."

Bean and DL, I consider you guys to be excellent rules-lawyers (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way). The fact that y'all are in accord on this tells me that this is the right interpretation. Please help! Thanks! Cope

[Tynskel]

I don't know what there is to love about this post. Someone didn't read the rules, and then someone else told the guy to read the rules...

[Chris Copeland]

I don't know what there is to love about this post. Someone didn't read the rules, and then someone else told the guy to read the rules...

Then I shall explain what I love about this thread: I've read the rules (over and over again) and I find LO,S! to be beyond confusing. Here come Bean and DL and say, with certitude, this is how it works. Simple. "Oh wonderful," says I! A distillation of LO,S! in two sentences!

So, Tynskel, can you quote chapter and verse why Bean & DL's explanation is the right one? I'd love to know what pages to point to because there are a lot of confused players out there. In my local group we are still trying to figure out if you can take LO,S! rolls after making armor saves in mixed-save units. Bean and DL seem to indicate you can't. This appeals to me but I'd love to back it up with more than, "Well because Bean, DarkLink, and Tynskel say so" during my next game. Cheers!

[Alqualonde]

Troops, I have to say I LOVE this thread. It seems to simply and easily break down a complicated rule and make it easily understandable. I like it so much that I've printed out a copy of it to keep with my BRB. I have a request: would y'all tell me exactly where to look in the BRB so that I can quickly point to it in case this comes up during a game? I'd like to be able to say:

"In a unit with mixed saves, LOS happens before saves. This is clearly written on page XXX of the BRB. In a unit with similar saves, LOS happens after saves. That is laid out on page XXX of the BRB."

Bean and DL, I consider you guys to be excellent rules-lawyers (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way). The fact that y'all are in accord on this tells me that this is the right interpretation. Please help! Thanks! Cope

Not sure of the exact page but when you read the look out sir rule, it says you take a look out sir immediately after allocating the wound or unsaved wound. The only way to allocate a wound, as against an unsaved wound, is when there are mixed saves. If you have to take the look out sir immediately it is allocated, it must be before any save.

[Tynskel]

well, if you read most rules posts that I have, I usually point to the page number, just like Bean and DarkLink.

In all three cases: we are reading the rulebook...