Curious Debate

[Irdion]

Now, as a matter of course in designing lists, occasionally come upon a case where my deliberations hit a major snag, and I'm forced to consider two rather strong choices in a vacuum.

In this case, I'm looking at the so often maligned Hydra Flak Tank versus a Heavy Weapon Squad armed with Autocannons.

A Hydra is 4 S7 TL shots at a 4+ vs Flyers and Skimmers and a 6+ versus other targets (ignoring Jink saves). A very strong choice versus flyers which have come into their own in the local meta. Alternatively, the HW Squad has 6 S7 TL shots at a 4+ versus all non-flying targets (including Skimmers), and 6's versus Skimmers.

So I come to you community. Which choice do you find the most viable for a competitive list? Personally, I'm leaning towards the inclusion of two HWS and 1 Hydra, but I'd like some input and arguments. For reference, let's assume a list making the decision between these two already included an Aegis Line (to take that out of the equation).

[DrLove42]

I think you might be right. 2 heavy nd 1 hydra.

Fliers are going to be very dominant in early 6th without widespread acess to AA. So another aanti aircraft option is good. But a hydra is poor against an army that doesnt includefliers or skim mers, wheras the weapons teams can threaten aircraft by throwing enough dice and be good against ground, that all armies obviosuly have. And fliers can be ignored to win games as they can neither contest nor capture, and can be oitdone by good gameplay. But keeping an option to shoot them down is always good

[fuzzbuket]

if your opponents regularly field lots of lascannons and such weapon squads would be preffered as they can take a great deal more punishment! (as opposed to the 1 stray las shot) however if they dont field lots of anti tank OR you have lots of other tanks (attracting fire) a hydra would be better.

[Mr Mystery]

I think the mixed approach is your best bet.

The Hydra is a massive threat against enemy Flyers, which makes it a target. This can be exploited in itself. The Heavy Squads can be pressed into service against pretty much any unit, barring AV14.

Where the Hydra has a better chance of surviving a firefight (small arms can't reliably harm it) the Heavy Squads can of course be deployed into decent cover.

None of them are exactly expensive options either!

[the jeske]

question of build mostly. are the IG runing 4-6 flyers of their own [if yes then no hydra] , are they runing stuff that lets them play opposing army reservs . how many BA/IG/Necron/orc players are there . If it is just for local games and the chance to see those with spamed flyers used regularly is low , then the hydra is a bad option . If it is for tournaments then the chance is much higher . how many points are played . there is no clean hydra always better[not for IG lists , as ally hydra is of course better for anti aircraft duty] or hydra always worse.

[Filthspew]

I would look at it this way:

Having a Hydra and not need it is a small loss.

Needing a Hydra and not having it is a huge loss.

Worst case, it is still usable for cover, blocking line of sight, ramming and tank shock.

Hell, you can even put it in front of a Manticore

[thelion]

well i would look at it in this method when you think about it with the new hp rules and all the hydra is harder to kill than say the ig heavy weapons sqd, and a sqd of hydras basicly puts you in a position as to witch you can almost say that at least one will get to shoot in the first turn no matter what.

[thecactusman17]

I'd go with the Heavy Weapons squad, and place them near an officer who can give them a reroll. If you have enough guns, you'll punch enough through to at least threaten the flyers, and you can hit normal tanks as well. The issue with Hydras is that that lack of Interceptor means that you aren't going to hurt the critical scoring units on the ground when you absolutely have to. If snap-fire was BS5, then it would be the Hydra. But on a 6, the reroll essentially gives you shooting almost but not quite as good as Orks. Which means that of your four shots, one is going to hit. Just one S7 AP$ shot. Ad that's not going to cut it against most armies.