A Tale of 3 Fliers

[DrLove42]

One of the biggest shifts in the 6th ed rules are the introduction of fliers into 40K. However, at this point all the fliers we have had their rules before 6th eds introduction (you could argue otherwise with StormTalon and the Orks…)

So this is a look at 3 different fliers. We have;
- The Eldar Nightwing. An example of an old model made good, made bad again
- The Vendetta. The first of the fliers, with rules from an age with no fliers in the game
- The Necron Night Scythe. A flier written with 6th solidly in mind

In this we will look at each of the fliers and see how the approach to their rules varies and how it applies in a 6th ed environment

Protection
Nightwing – AV 10/10/10. 2 HP. Shrouding and a 2+ evade save
Vendetta – 12/12/10. Extra Armour. 3 HP
Night Scythe 11/11/11. 3HP. Living Metal
Got to say the Vendetta wins this round. The extra armour in all but the side means it is much less likely to take a damage roll. The Nightwing, has a decent chance of surviving, thanks to that 2+ evade save, but sacrifices all chance of being an effective shooter to do so. And being 2 HP and AV10 means you will be evading a lot to ensure your survival as even a squad with bolters is a threat

Armament
Nightwing – 2 Cannons (2 x 3 shots S6 AP5) and 2 Lances (S8 AP2 Lance) at BS4
Vendetta – 3 Twinlinked Lascannons (S9 AP2) and 2 Heavy Bolters (2 x 3 Shots S5 AP4) at BS3
Night Scythe – 1 Twin Linked Tesla Destructor (4 Shots, S7 AP- + Additional Hits on a 6) at BS4
2nd round to the Vendetta with the Necrons close behind. More firepower on a normal turn of shooting for the Vendetta, with twinlinked to make its snap shots better if it evades. The Necrons do well here as well, with a single snap shot hit giving them 3 hits. As previously mentioned if the Eldar go evading so they can survive, they only hit on their 6’s as normal.

Transport
Nightwing – None
Vendetta – 10 guys, can be deployed on the move. (Virtualy guaranteed to be) wounded on destruction
Night Scythe – 15 guys, go back in reserve if destroyed
Necrons win here. The fact the guys inside live to fight another day is good for them, even if they must come on from the back. Beats being killed on a 2+ for the Guardsmen

Any Other rules?
Nightwing- Agile (+1 evade save, gives us the 2+), Vector Dancer. Fast Attack Choice
Vendetta – Searchlight. Fast Attack, Squadrons
Necrons – Can’t think of anything – Ded Transport

The Nightwings ability is very situational here, the Vendetta’s searchlight can be great, particularly if the enemy is dug in in the last turns if you have night fighting as it can get there good and fast. The fact the Necrons are a ded transport is a big boon to them in how many you can take as well

Cost –
Nightwing – 145pts
Vendetta – 140pts
Night Scythe - 100
Despite not winning a single category the nightwing is the most expensive of the lot. Bear in mind pre 6th when these guys all just counted as skimmers, it had the same cost, but had a permanent 4+ invulnerable, and for apoc rules was the only one of this choice with AA mounts.

Long story short – as everyone knows the Vendetta is disgusting,the Necrons are pretty good and the Eldar are being screwed again.

Nothing new there then

[eldargal]

Email it to FW.

[TSINI]

Email it to FW.

lol, don't blame Forgeworld, When they designed the rules for the Valkyrie in IA1 it was Armour 11,11,10, no extra armour as standard, and cost 140 points with only the multilaser and door heavy bolters. replacing the multilaser with a lascannon cost 10 points, and could be upgraded with hellstrikes for 20 points, or rocket pods for 50.

When GW decided to port the valkyrie to the codex, it wasnt enough to give it a triple twin lascannon toting version, but they reduced the points, increased the armour and gave it extra armour as standard, Then reduced the cost of upgrades. lol!

not that I'm complaining, I've been a Guard player through and through for a loong time. I remember overhearing a GW employee complaining that "forgeworld units" ruin the game when GW brings them into the codex, like the Vanquisher - to which I pointed out the vanquisher rules were in the first "stand alone" guard codex (after 3rd ed's rulebook based codex),

[eldargal]

Oh I'm not blaming them, but if they see the Nightwing is underperforming against flyers that aren't even anti-air dedicated they might boost its rules a bit.

[DrLove42]

I'd actually argue that the Nightwing is appropriatly priced. Comapre it to a normal tank in the Eldar army with similar weaponary (Falcon, Pulse Laser and 2 Cannons) and its not too bad

whats wrong is the plastic codex fliers are dirtily underpriced to drive sales

[eldargal]

I think it needs Interceptor so it can targer flyers efficiently while evading, at present it can't do it's job as well as dedicated transports which is a travesty even if those transports were more expensive.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Is this ANOTHER Nightwing thread? For the love of the Gods!

[Defenestratus]

One thing you forgot to mention, and its actually HUGE - is that the Nightwing has Vector Dancer.

Quite simply this makes the nightwing so much better than it looks on paper. I've been running a list with 3 nightwings and a phoenix (oh dear god the Phoenix is nasty) and I have to say that I've been proven wrong with regards to the nightwing. The only thing I could ask for is an additional HP to make it equal with other flyers. The 5+ save hurts, but in reality, my NW's aren't taking any incoming fire at all hardly.

Quite simply the Nightwings are amazingly good at killing light armor and infantry.

The Phoenix with strafing run is just WRONG. Its evil, wrong and I felt guilty after using it just once.

[thelion]

ok so from what i have read here i think the real issue is that we (and gw/fw) are trying to fix an issue that is beyond serious repair. what should be done IMHO is restart the whole flyer thing. leave the flyers we allready have alone (there comes a point when you have to just accept the issues with a system and drive on) and give each codex a real sole-eating, fire-spitting, lighting-pissing, air to air unit. i mean a real dog fighter. give it some crazy super flyer rule to govern its movement, and set it up to dog fight, price it right (points and money) and make it look cool. set them up fairly even for each codex and presto! changeo! and we have a fixed working flyer system in the game that can add a new peice to the way we fight.

[DrLove42]

Kind of agree. The Vendetta was written at a time long before fliers had a rule and we just treated them as skimming.

I did rememeber Vector Dancer, but only added it this morning, cos i forgot at original time of writting. It can be useful, it can help mitigate some of the downsides of fliers. But lets face it prior to 6th when it was just a skimmer without this problem it was the same points cost

Yes the Pheonix does seem very good to me. Staggeringly expensive (lets face it its the Nightwing + missiles and BS5 on the ground targets) but seems reasonable.

And yes its another thread that has a Nightwing in it. But its all about comparing to other things, and looking a the state of fliers, not complaining about it (although it does go that way)