Looking for Clarification on some Rules

[herigonz]

Hey everybody,

So I played a small "tourney" yesterday and as always a few questions came up. At the time due to time constraints I ended up letting some slide while others I just didn't honestly know where else to look. So here goes...

Q1 - Where do flyers re-enter after they've left the playing field? For instance, a Space Marine Sky Talon flies off my board edge. When he re-enters does he re-enter from his side or my side?

We decided at the time that the flyer would re-enter from whichever board edge it exited. I don't think this is correct though because the rule simply states they enter ongoing reserves and at that point I'd just assume they have to re-enter via the player's edge of the board like the flyers normally do.

Q2 - If a unit is manning a Quad Gun emplacement for an Aegis Defense Line, can he charge into combat after having shot it?

I have no where to look specifically. RAI it makes sense that he simply abandons the emplacement and charges into combat. RAW leads me to think that since it is a Heavy weapon, the model cannot charge unless he is relentless. Thoughts?

Q3 - Does a unit still take a negative modifier of -1 to Leadership when the unit sustains 50% or more losses?

I think this one was ruled correctly (that the unit no longer takes it) as there is no mention of it in the Morale Check section of the 6th ed rule book.

Q4 - I guess this is more clarification on a 5th vs 6th vs I don't know where I even heard it. For as long as I can remember, if a unit is stationed inside a ruin with windows, how close does the unit have to be from said window to not give a cover save to its target?

Previously I think that you could shoot out of anything (defense line, ruin, woods, etc) and not yield a cover save if you were within 4" of the edge if I'm not mistaken. But at this point I think I am defaulting to 5th edition again. In the situation yesterday, there was a unit that was 6" from the window who had LOS to one of my units but was about 5-6" away from the window. It was ruled that my unit would get a cover save. Was this correct?

Any page references to clarifications would be great. Had a rough outting and once again it is really evident that the game is truly won in the movement phase. 2 Victories were grasped from the jaws of Defeat because I was out maneuvered. Most of the time it had to do with me being unwilling to commit to a full move and that in turn cost those two games. I really need to change my approach to playing "The Relic".

Thanks in advance to any who can help me with any of these questions.

[Cursed13]

1) Flyers return on the owning player's board edge as per normal Reserve rules. Ongoing Reserves, p125. It may not seem like this makes sense, just pretend that the flyer turns around and flies back to the deployment zone where they know it's somewhat more secure.

2) This will require an FAQ and probably will see it whenever it is released. Gun Emplacements just follow the rules for shooting, Gun Emplacement p105, Shooting Phase p12, Heavy Weapons p51. Heavy is a gun type that effects models carrying a Heavy weapon. Technically they should still be able to assault, but I can understand that the gunner is too busy playing with his new toy to leave it and charge into assault. I cannot rule one way or the other, so for friendly games roll a D6. On a 1, 2 or 3, the gunner is too enamoured with his toy and his squad is covering him, they cannot assault after shooting it. On a 4, 5, 6 they muster the resolve to abandon the emplacement and charge into the jaws of the enemy, sometimes more literally than figuratively! In a tournament, I would play it safe and say that a unit that fires a Gun Emplacement cannot assault until there's an FAQ stating otherwise.

3) No, a unit does not receive any Ld modifiers due to casualties taken, only a Morale Check happens. The only time this sort of happens is after losing assault. Morale p29.

4) In Fifth Edition, if you occupied area terrain (ruins for example) and shot through 2 inches of it, your target received a Cover Save. This is no longer the case, Area Terrain p91, Cover Save p102. In order for them to receive a Cover Save, you would have to shoot through the area terrain (as it is between your unit and theirs, blocking them from your shots), or they would have to be in the area terrain. Being in area terrain and shooting out of it does not confer a cover save to the enemy. Your unit is using the terrain to cover themselves and aiming their guns through it to the disadvantage of your enemy. Also remember Cover Saves are granted if the unit is 25% obscured, so if your view through a ruin somewhat obscures them, they will get a cover save. Area Terrain is mainly used for determining the amount of area that certain cover types occupy so you know where the unit moves to get a cover save and when to make difficult terrain tests. Ruins are their own thing now, only their base, if they have one, has the Area Terrain rules.

Hope this helps. If I got anything wrong I'm sure there are other players out there that will pick my answers apart. But I'm fairly confident in my reading of the rules. Hopefully I explained it well enough that there's no more confusion. Tournaments come and go, there's always the next one and as long as you learn from the past and move into the future more prepared, then you've already won the important battle. Aim to win, play for fun.

[Tynskel]

2) The model is firing a heavy weapon. End of story.

[DarkLink]

Exactly. Devestators can't fire their lascannons, then drop them and charge into combat, then pick them up again once the combat is over, neither can you do so with a quad gun.

You fire a heavy weapon, you can't assault.

[Cursed13]

DarkLink, the Devastator analogy is kinda silly, since Devastators are equipped with the Heavy Weapon, they're going to be carrying it and would never drop it. The Gun Emplacement is not their equipment, they're not bringing it with them, and they never will be able to. Regardless, I still agree, I would play it as though they cannot assault. That is, until an FAQ says otherwise. We'll just have to wait and see.

[herigonz]

Thanks everybody for the re-assurances.

Q1 - Everything I've read states they enter through the owning player's side. The Flyer doesn't have Outflanking so it cannot enter from the sides and they aren't Snikrot (one of the few that can enter from the enemy deployment edge). Per page 125 of the BRB "Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for Reserves."

So on page 124 of the BRB it states "When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge" and then goes onto specify the exemptions are Deep Striking and Outflanking.

Q2 - The best example I can find is on page 105 under Gun Emplacement where the BRB states, "One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can fire it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules for shooting. The type of weapon on the gun emplacement depends on the model that you're using to represent it..." and as Tynskel and DarkLink both state, the guns are Heavy (in this case it was a Quad-Gun which on page 114 shows up as a "Heavy 4, Interceptor, Twin-linked, Skyfire" so "normal rules" mean the model cannot charge unless it is Relentless.

Hrmmm, so those are two things that definitely could've changed the games for me all ready.

Q3 - Yeah, it is pretty much old habits die hard. No -1 to Leadership from shooting unless a gun specifies it.

Q4 - I think I understand how things work a bit better as far as cover saves go. I guess in the situation I was in, the opponent was in ruins and shooting from the back end of the ruins where he could only see a small portion of my vehicle. I told him I would get a 5+ cover save because he wasn't at the window where he could see the majority of my model (there were two las cannons). This is kind of how it looked (top-down from the 2nd level of a ruin):

[CODE] | L
|
|
| L
--- ----------

VV[/CODE]

...where VV represents my vehicle and L represent the lascannons shooting at me from uh...Sternguard.

In any case, you always learn the most when you get burned by something. There were quite a few rules I hadn't played with since 5th edition that I definitely got wrong that could've also helped out. In the end I did have fun though it is always frustrating when you're in a better position to pull out a W and you end up losing. But again, that was more my own fault than any specific rule. Thanks guys!

[DarkLink]

DarkLink, the Devastator analogy is kinda silly, since Devastators are equipped with the Heavy Weapon, they're going to be carrying it and would never drop it.

The idea that a soldier would never drop a piece of heavy, clumsy equipment when locked in hand to hand combat with the enemy is laughable.

The Gun Emplacement is not their equipment, they're not bringing it with them, and they never will be able to.

That doesn't make using the quad gun any less prohibitive of hand to hand combat. It's hard to fight when you're sitting in a gunner's chair.

[evilamericorp]

Thanks everybody for the re-assurances.

Q1 - Everything I've read states they enter through the owning player's side. The Flyer doesn't have Outflanking so it cannot enter from the sides and they aren't Snikrot (one of the few that can enter from the enemy deployment edge). Per page 125 of the BRB "Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn, but otherwise follow the normal rules for Reserves."

And even if the flyer did have outflanking (like a Valkyrie), the outflanking rules specifically say that you cannot use them to come in from Ongoing Reserves.