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  1. #21

    Default

    The only way to really run all deathwing is all TH/SS and cyclones. Nothing else. Really, really boring to play against, though.

    Back on topic. Jump marines got incredible. DoA was pretty dead by the end of 5th anyway, in fact it dies pretty soon after the BA codex was released and people caught on.

    All your dudes with packs get a free I10 attack in combat if you maneuver well, they ignore terrain and other troops when assaulting. you can jump right over that bubble wrap.

    FNP is better than before now that it can be taken against power weapons and plasma. So what if it's 5+ now, you still get more guys surviving in the long run due to getting it vs AP2.

    LC termies just got good. DC got amazing. lemmy took a bit of a hit, but he was too good for his points anyway.

    The only real bad point is the loss of +1I on the charge, but that was possibly too good anyway. It's turned BA RAS from auto includes to fighting for a spot with tactical marines (10 dudes, plasgun, plascan, priest, on an objective is going nowhere.)

  2. #22
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    Default Blood Angels: The Story So Far

    There's been some good stuff to come out of this thread. Let me see if I can summarize it to best continue the conversation.

    Jump Infantry

    Jump infantry - of which the Blood Angels have a great deal, from sanguinary guard to assault marines - got better thanks to Hammer of Wrath, their increased (if variable) speed, premeasuring, and increased charge distances.

    However, 6th hasn't done anything to help Descent of Angels, which means that it might be best to view jump infantry as an added benefit rather than a primary strategy.

    Death Company

    Death company got a huge boost now that they are under your control and not your opponent's.

    Sanguinary Guard

    Sanguinary guard got a lot more surviveable thanks to their 2+ armor and the changes to the way power weapons work now forcing your opponents to chose between going last and penetrating their armor. With axes/powerfists on some of the squad and swords on the rest, they can be a pretty tough unit.

    Reserves

    I still think that this is where the Blood Angels took the biggest hit, with the rules changes to reserves and tabling meaning that you must deploy half your army, and if that half gets blasted then you have lost the game.

    Feel No Pain

    I agree that this basically got better, since low AP is more common than instant death, and 5+ is almost as good as 4+.

    Let me summarize further:


    +
    • Hammer of Wrath (boosts all jump infantry)
    • Rage Changes (boosts Death Company)
    • Power Weapons (boosts Sanguinary Guard)
    • Feel No Pain (boosts Sanguinary Priests & Death Company)



    -
    • Reserves (hurts the basic premise of many Blood Angels lists)
    • Overwatch (hurts all assault armies)


    What conclusions can we draw from this?

    1. Relying too much on jumping assault marines as objective holders may be a mistake. It might be better to focus on the tastier, more offensively focused jump units. Take those assault troops, lose the jump packs, and put them in cheap rhinos/razorbacks, and use those as objective holders. Or, alternately, rely on allies to hold those objectives.

    2. The best units for offensive power are probably death company, sanguinary guard, and vanguard veterans. Sanguinary guard benefit from the support of a sanguinary priest. Death company don't need a sanguinary priest, but they particularly enjoy the support of a chaplain or reclusiarch. Jump librarians and captains can take an honor guard, which can include a sanguinary novice, which is a good way to get them Feel No Pain without resorting to an additional model held in reserves.

    3. We need to use hit or hard to kill models to start on the table in order to maximize the number of units we can deep strike. Scouts, squads in vehicles, and cheap allies seem like good ideas for this role.

    I have to contemplate this and try to spin off a few lists. What are your thoughts on the matter?

  3. #23

    Default

    I think a key improvement is the semi hidden nature of the Priest in combat now. You get to start taking wounds from any model in combat, this definitely increaes his survivability in combat.

    Corbulo's FNP is awesome if I am reading it right.

    Our version of the strom raven is a flyer killer with the missle's being ap 1.

    While you cannot deep strike the whole army having a rerolable 3+ means that 90% of your forces are coming on turn 2.

    The Ba'al pred might also be a pretty solid anti flyer unit as 4 twin linked str 6 shots followed by 6 str 5 shots delivers 2+ hits a turn.

  4. #24

    Default

    Ok, so I am new to BoLS but here is my take on this. I play Blood Angels and only Blood Angels. This edition forces us in to a more rounded army. There is no more heavy mech or DoA armies. I have tried both with very little success. But what I have had success with is a mixture of both. The tactical squad is my new best friend and I field more of them than assault squads. This edition moved us from an in your face assault army to more of a hammer and anvil army. It's not that bad if you think about it people see a BA army and they expect a DoA in your face army. And I love to see them freak out when I sit back and dakka dakka them up they make the move from cover and I drop in an assault team to clean them up. It is not bad it's actually a nice change.

  5. #25
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    Default

    I much prefer the new way to play them, it's what they're really meant to be in the first place. There's an extremely incorrect assumption that Blood Angels are 'All jump packs, all the time!', when in fact they have the same arrangements as other Chapters, but they have a preference for close combat and if it's a choice between the Tacticals being slightly diminished or the Assault squads, it will be the Assault squads that most of them will fill up.

    Using a couple of Tactical Squads with a couple of Assault squads and one of many Elite assault units seems like a balanced, fluffy and good way to go about things as a base.

  6. #26

    Default

    ok here is a simple list of 1500 pts

    now the 6th edition has unlocked forgeworld units as well dont forget this buffs the BA like never before and makes them 1 seriously effective assault speartip let me explain

    Dante 225
    Furioso blood talons lucius drop pod 175
    Furioso blood talons lucius drop pod 175
    San guard 200
    san guard 200
    san guard power fist 210
    san guard power fist 210
    assault squad sgt melta bombs drop pod 100

    1500pts

    so turn 1 set up on table with dante the 4 san guard squads then you have drop pod assault with 3 pods which means 2 arrive first turn what a shock the furiosos so turn 1 your pods drop your furiosos deploy your san guards and dante move fowards and into cover where possible you then assault with the furiosos picking the biggest units on the table they will remain locked in combat or simply shatter the unit charged either way your opponent has just gone mental and whatever stratagy he was thinking of is out of the window as he has 2 rampaging dreads in his deployment zone

    turn 2 the sangunary gaurd hit combat the furisos if they have not been delt with cause even more chaos the san guard hit and assault the enemy forces

    turn2 or 3 the other pod arrives bringing a simple scoring unit so lay it back on an objective your lucius pods give you linebreaker and you have 4 other scoring units the san guard so victory and mop up should be straight forwards enough

    NO other force can do this not even close the furiosos and san guard with dante can deal with everything someone can place on the table and best of all you get to pick exactly where you are going to hit so now tell me how nerfed the angels are !

  7. #27
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hodgson View Post
    ok here is a simple list of 1500 pts

    now the 6th edition has unlocked forgeworld units as well dont forget this buffs the BA like never before and makes them 1 seriously effective assault speartip let me explain

    Dante 225
    Furioso blood talons lucius drop pod 175
    Furioso blood talons lucius drop pod 175
    San guard 200
    san guard 200
    san guard power fist 210
    san guard power fist 210
    assault squad sgt melta bombs drop pod 100

    1500pts

    Ok, wow -- They FAQ'd that. [url]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2update28AUG.pdf[/url]


    Hmm... I did not think BA had access to Lucius Pattern Pods. Cause being able to assault from deep strike Turn 1 with a Blood Talon Dread seems a little too good.

    Also, please use some punctuation next time :P

    Edit: Apparently that is an old link. This is the current link: [url]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html[/url]
    There is no IA FAQ for 6th currently.

    In the current IA book The Lucius Pattern Drop Pods are not available to BA for this specific reason.
    Last edited by AdamHarry; 10-12-2012 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Old Link

  8. #28

    Default There's a Thread for That...

    Quote Originally Posted by JMichael View Post
    But you don't HAVE to start the unit deployed in the Drop Pod
    There really isn't a reason to start a new thread about having a fully drop-podded army. The BoLS community already hashed this all out months ago. The thread can be found [URL="http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?22950-You-CAN-Have-a-Fully-Reserved-Drop-Pod-Army"]here[/URL]. The numbers have been crunched, the relevant rules have been quoted and a consensus has been reached.

    Back to the OP: I think that 6th has been hard on all assault based armies. I can't imagine playing my 'Nids again until we get a new codex. I was going to start a Blood Angel army but I think that I'm hold off and see how things shake out for a bit.

    I LOVE the idea of loading up Blood Angels with flamer templates and dropping them near the enemy. Overwatch hurts!
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  9. #29

    Default

    I have actually adapted my army to primarily shoot. Fast predators can drive around corners and such and still fire all weapons at full BS. This advantage can not be underestimated when playing an actual game. I have found that there are too many lists now that simply out HTH the BA since we lost access to init 5. Or at least they cause too much damage when they fight back.

  10. #30
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martel732 View Post
    I have actually adapted my army to primarily shoot. Fast predators can drive around corners and such and still fire all weapons at full BS. This advantage can not be underestimated when playing an actual game. I have found that there are too many lists now that simply out HTH the BA since we lost access to init 5. Or at least they cause too much damage when they fight back.
    I've had plenty of luck with the Space Marines army I designed to shoot - my Exorcists - so much so that I kind of wish that I'd kept those unused bolter marines to make some Blood Angels tac squads... oh well, at least I like the way my Exorcists are turning out!

    My new plan is to run all-jump Blood Angels allied to all-mech Sisters of Battle. The list looks kind of like this:

    HQ
    • Jump Librarian
    • Jump Reclusiarch

    Elites
    • Jump Sanguinary Priest w/Power Weapon

    Troops
    • 10 Jump Assault Marines (2 Plasma Guns, Power Fist Sergeant)
    • 10 Jump Death Company

    Fast Attack
    • Baal Predator

    HQ
    • Canoness

    Troops
    • 10 Battle Sisters (2 Flamers) in a Rhino
    • 10 Battle Sisters (2 Meltaguns) in a Rhino

    Fast Attack
    • 5 Dominion (2 Meltaguns) in a Multi-Melta Immolator

    We'll see how it works out. Biggest plusses? Lots of different kinds of threats, Faith rules give me some neat boosts, many objective holders, and I have lots of capacity to hurt enemy vehicles and heavy infantry. Biggest minus? This is an entirely mid- to close-range list. I'll have a lot of trouble when I roll Hammer and Anvil.
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