Big Hubbub about Njal and Flyers

[Bigred]

Long story short: The winner of the NOVA Open was assisted by a judge ruling that allowed his Njal's "Lord of Tempests" to automatically strike flyers without needing either snapfire to hit, or allowing evade rolls.

Discuss...

[CridiDeal]

I would say that automatic hits are fine, but you can argue about evade rolls.
It says that, after rolling to hit but before armor penetration you roll for evade. IMO you get evade rolls as you just skip the to-hit rolls.

[DrLove42]

For those of us who don't know....what are the exact words on the power?

[CridiDeal]

"At the end of Njal's Shooting phase, a model within 18" is ravaged by a tornado, taking D3 S9 hits. Vehicles are hit on their side armour".

OR

"At the end of Njal's Shooting phase, unengaged enemy units within 12" of Njal take D6 S8 hits with an AP of 5."

[Tacoo]

"At the end of Njal's Shooting phase, a model within 18" is ravaged by a tornado, taking D3 S9 hits. Vehicles are hit on their side armour".

OR

"At the end of Njal's Shooting phase, unengaged enemy units within 12" of Njal take D6 S8 hits with an AP of 5."

Im no rules expert, but i thought that things that auto hit couldnt hit filyers that were zooming?

[AbeSapien]

Codex special rules should overrule rulebook rules so an automatic hit is an automatic hit.
This gives some armies a little bit of defense against flyers without needing allies or to buy the Aegis defense line.

The flyer should still get evade. Just assume that the "to hit" rolls are automatically passed due to the special codex rule. So evade then roll to penetrate.

[SacredChao]

Im no rules expert, but i thought that things that auto hit couldnt hit filyers that were zooming?

In order to shoot at a flyer, you need to snap fire. Snap Fire rules state that weapons that don't use Ballistics skill cannot be snap fired. This applies to psychic powers as well as blasts, templates, etc. I'd have to say that if it's a single model taking it, the Flyer definitely can't be targeted unless Njal has skyfire. The all enemy within 12" is a bit less cut and dry, but currently Nova's and Maelstrom's cannot hit a flyer, so I would assume this can't as well.

[DrLove42]

Codex special rules should overrule rulebook rules so an automatic hit is an automatic hit.
This gives some armies a little bit of defense against flyers without needing allies or to buy the Aegis defense line.

The flyer should still get evade. Just assume that the "to hit" rolls are automatically passed due to the special codex rule. So evade then roll to penetrate.

Agree with part 2, not part 1.

This gives SPACE WOLVES more defence against fliers, no one else. The main argument i've seen is that this is neither a shooting attack or a power. Thereofre shooting attacks that autohit (line drawing) don't benefit from this ruling. Something else to make Space Wolves better...yay

And as for agreeing on part 2, yes they should get to evade. The idea that "it never rolled to hit, evade rolls are made after to hit, therefore it doesn't get any" is stupid

I'm of the opinion that the rule book is clear here. Anything that autohits cannot target aircraft

[CridiDeal]

In order to shoot at a flyer, you need to snap fire. Snap Fire rules state that weapons that don't use Ballistics skill cannot be snap fired. This applies to psychic powers as well as blasts, templates, etc. I'd have to say that if it's a single model taking it, the Flyer definitely can't be targeted unless Njal has skyfire. The all enemy within 12" is a bit less cut and dry, but currently Nova's and Maelstrom's cannot hit a flyer, so I would assume this can't as well.

It is not a shooting OR psychic shooting attack, so your argument is invalid.

[Rapture]

There is nothing to discuss. The ruling is objectively correct from a clear and simple RAW perspective. This is nothing more than a thinly-veiled opportunity for people to loosely adapt this situation to the per-existing bias regarding fliers and the rule for firing at them. No one stands to benefit from re-airing a pointless argument.