Codex updates

[Katie Drake]

And yet this doesn't seem to work out very well. There seem to be alot of disgruntled people out there.

It's working just fine. GW's debt practically disappeared over this last year. They're making plenty of money - the pissed off customers are few and far between compared to those that happily shell out loads of cash on their product.

[Rogue428]

And yet this doesn't seem to work out very well. There seem to be alot of disgruntled people out there.

Plus we're gamers. And if there is one thing gamers are good at it is complaining. Don't get me wrong, if folks didn't know me, they wouldn't know how I felt about GW. I complain about them a lot (I have Daemonhunters, Necron, and Dark Eldar armies).

This last Saturday was a perfect example. A bunch of us 40K players hanging around the FLGS, ragging on the Space Wolves guys for getting their goodies before us. It turned into the standard complain about GW rant session. No one was really bothered, because we're all hard-core 40K players. But there were folks there playing D&D and one of the guys said, "Wow, if you guys don't like GW that much, stop playing the game." And we were all kind of shocked. No way we'd ever stop. In fact, we all adore GW. We're addicts. It's just that we wish they would do things better. And also...because we're gamers.

Said player said he never talked like that about Wizards, to which I responded, he hadn't been playing D&D long enough. We've all heard the 'Fourth Edition sucks." "3.5 is awful", '3 is broken, 2nd edition AD&D is the way to go". People say the same stuff about MtG and Warmachine.

Gamers will complain about anything. What if GW re-released a really well-loved game and updated it with crazy quality and insane new miniatures. What if they did it for about $100USD. No one would complain about that right?

I think its just a gamer thing. Don't put too much stock in the level of disgruntledness (is that even a word?). Chances are that the guy in the corner at your FLGS complaining about not having a new Dark Eldar dex is walking his way to the register holding some new Space Wolves.

That guy wouldn't be me however, I hate 'em...oh this box? They're for a friend.

<insert obligatory need Dark Eldar/Necron/army of choice codex now rant here>

[Melissia]

So here's an idea.

How about GW don't release a new edition of a game unless they have all the codex's ready to release with it?

The advantages are obvious, are there any drawbacks?
Is it even remotely feasible?

It just seems to me that they need to take a longer pause between additions and sort their act out somewhat.

Opinions?

It's feasible, but it doesn't fit in with their business plan (regardless of how flawed that plan may or may not be).

And if there is one thing gamers are good at it is complaining

That's because they never stop giving us things to complain about.

I'd certainly rarely complain if I got a decent (not necessarily even powerful, just well-written and fun-- I'd take the codex and MAKE it win) codex for the Sisters instead of having to wait a decade, which is the current forecast (that is to say, by the time the next Sisters codex is released, it'll have been a decade).

But of course, GW isn't gonna do that. After all, they don't want my money, or the money of the thousands of Sisters players, or the many thousands of players whom would buy Sisters if they were available in plastic. Heh.

[Rogue428]

I'd certainly rarely complain if I got a decent (not necessarily even powerful, just well-written and fun-- I'd take the codex and MAKE it win) codex for the Sisters instead of having to wait a decade, which is the current forecast (that is to say, by the time the next Sisters codex is released, it'll have been a decade)

I feel your pain Sister. (pun intended)

[Kanaellars]

It's feasible, but it doesn't fit in with their business plan (regardless of how flawed that plan may or may not be).



That's because they never stop giving us things to complain about.

I'd certainly rarely complain if I got a decent (not necessarily even powerful, just well-written and fun-- I'd take the codex and MAKE it win) codex for the Sisters instead of having to wait a decade, which is the current forecast (that is to say, by the time the next Sisters codex is released, it'll have been a decade).

But of course, GW isn't gonna do that. After all, they don't want my money, or the money of the thousands of Sisters players, or the many thousands of players whom would buy Sisters if they were available in plastic. Heh.

Your complaints about the sisters of suckness are no different than most everyone else about thier chosen army.

Just think... we wolves waited 11 years... we finally got ours, you will to (some day).

[DarkLink]

So here's an idea.

How about GW don't release a new edition of a game unless they have all the codex's ready to release with it?

The advantages are obvious, are there any drawbacks?
Is it even remotely feasible?

It just seems to me that they need to take a longer pause between additions and sort their act out somewhat.

Opinions?

GW simply doesn't have the manpower to do this. As I recall, GW HQ has roughly 70 employees. These 70 people do ALL the rules for 3 major gaming systems (40k, Fantasy and LotR), all the models for said games, any number of side games (such as space hulk). That's a ton of work for relatively few people to do. Don't forget it takes a LONG time to develop a codex. I wouldn't be surprised if it took over a year to get one done, maybe less if they rush it. At the very least, it probably takes 3-4 months minimum.

GW doesn't make enough money to hire more people, and doesn't have the manpower to update every single codex at the same time. This isn't really a matter of "GW should do this, or do that...", it's one of "GW CAN do this, or CAN'T do this." In this case, it really isn't feisable for GW to update all, what, 16 codecies and the core rules all at the same time, while meeting demands for their other product lines.

[Brass Scorpion]

So here's an idea.

How about GW don't release a new edition of a game unless they have all the codex's ready to release with it?

The advantages are obvious, are there any drawbacks?
Is it even remotely feasible?

It just seems to me that they need to take a longer pause between additions and sort their act out somewhat.

Opinions?

Personally I like the idea and have thought of it myself over the years, but it's not going to happen for some very good reasons. Be careful what you wish for. In other words, if you think about that for a bit I don't think anyone will think it's a great idea under GW's current staffing and development capabilities.

When 2nd edition came out and when they jumped from 2nd to 3rd you had to wait years in some cases for a Codex for certain armies and use a "generic" short and low on detail army list for those armies till the Codex was released. It was horrible for players and bad marketing for GW and they fortunately do not do that any longer.

On the other hand, if they waited to revise the rule book till all the Codex books were revised we'd still be in 3rd Edition because some of those Codex books have not yet been revised, which would have probably put GW out of business by now. In order to accomplish the task suggested by the original topic post, they'd need a lot more people to accomplish a full development cycle of every army book, model range and the core rule book in only about 5 years and that would likely bankrupt the company along with the drop in monthly sales due to the lack of new releases during the dead time till the next full game revision. New releases for different armies and different game systems are spaced out for marketing and cash flow reasons that are not going away in spite of the appeal to customers of the idea of having the whole game neatly revised and released all at once every 5 or so years.

[fuzzbuket]

the reason they stall releases is because once a 6-yr old has wasted£££££££ of mummys money on smurfs he wants the stuff in the WD*catalog* so it can fight with smurfeys (ive seen it ALL to often)

thanks

Fuzzbuket

[Abominable Plague Marine]

Id just like to not have my army Codex be the last one released before the new edition and thus out of date almost straight away.

[jahred]

I personally feel that the current way of codex updating works in theory but fails in reality for 40k but works stunning for fantasy.

How?

Simply since Warhammer actually has a cyclical system while 40k goes Space Marines, X, Y, Z, Space Marines, A, B, C, Space Marines. In Warhammer, you know that your army will get updated before the next edition, it is just a matter of when and holding out until then. In comparison, in 40k, its a matter of if your codex will get redone (unless your Space Marines, then its a matter of how many times).

So why have GW done this approach? Well, it could be that in fantasy, whilst there are bigger sellers (Vampire Counts and Warriors of Choas seem to be at the top) there is no single dominant army, therefore, a cyclical system works since every new army will produce a roughly average return. In comparison, in 40k, Space Marines take up the Lions share of the sales whilst other armies take the remaining share, hence the repeated reissuing of the same army. Obviously, being a buisness, its good to make money even though it isn't in the best interest of the hobby.

Just some thoughts.