How much 'GrimDark' is to much?

[Durendin]

There's so much political correctness and lefty hand-wringing these days my first instinct is always to run counter to it. If someone is really so sensitive that this sort of thing is too much for them then this world is perhaps proving too cruel for the poor little darlings. I heartily suggest they expedite their departure from it post haste.

Give up an inch and it's gone for good.

[Gotthammer]

Or, you know, they've suffered real discrimination and hatred and don't want to deal with it in a hobby store [/just sayin']

But, on the other hand, your suggestion that they kill themselves is far more sensible than trying to understand their point of view. Why bother when it's clearly [URL="https://twitter.com/MalePrivilege/status/252541950505385985"]their fault for getting upset[/URL] amirite?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

WOAH.

Guys, let's all chill out for a second here. Durendin, I had a friend who committed suicide because of discrimination. You should be REALLY careful what you say in regards to suicide. It isn't a laughing matter, it isn't about "butthurt", it's a serious issue that is increasing in these desperate times.

This conversation does NOT continue, does everyone understand?

[inquisitorsog]

So you guys know that I am looking for some models for my friend to add some 'juves' in is army. This has got him some ribbing on some other sites, but nothing bad.

So the question is: How far can one go before the invisible line is crossed?

Your thoughts?

You mean cyber cherubs didn't cross any relevant line already?

[Nabterayl]

Along the lines of the mod's point, I think it's only civilized to consider what people are more likely to have personal experience with. If you've had first-hand experience with one of the real-world evils that can be represented in 40K, I think you're more entitled to be sensitive about it. In my mind, there's a big difference between a 12 year old American being offended by a National Socialist-themed army and a concentration camp survivor being offended by the same army, you know what I mean? Similarly, if I had any guys at my club who had been child soldiers and they thought my toy child soldiers were over the line ... I'd be okay with that, honestly. In the real 20th and 21st centuries, child soldiers are not a nice thing.

I agree that sometimes people are too easily offended, and I think a hobbyist needn't feel constrained by those people. But I also think a hobbyist needs to remember that 40K satirizes a lot of stuff that is genuinely horrible in real life, and when somebody is offended by something that is genuinely horrible - even in satire - the civilized hobbyist should at least inquire as to whether the offended party has some reason to find the satire beyond the pale.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well said Nabterayl.

[Wildeybeast]

Along the lines of the mod's point, I think it's only civilized to consider what people are more likely to have personal experience with. If you've had first-hand experience with one of the real-world evils that can be represented in 40K, I think you're more entitled to be sensitive about it. In my mind, there's a big difference between a 12 year old American being offended by a National Socialist-themed army and a concentration camp survivor being offended by the same army, you know what I mean? Similarly, if I had any guys at my club who had been child soldiers and they thought my toy child soldiers were over the line ... I'd be okay with that, honestly. In the real 20th and 21st centuries, child soldiers are not a nice thing.

I agree that sometimes people are too easily offended, and I think a hobbyist needn't feel constrained by those people. But I also think a hobbyist needs to remember that 40K satirizes a lot of stuff that is genuinely horrible in real life, and when somebody is offended by something that is genuinely horrible - even in satire - the civilized hobbyist should at least inquire as to whether the offended party has some reason to find the satire beyond the pale.

Whilst I'd agree that there needs to be some consideration given to others feelings and things which are obviously stupidly insensitive (like making the **** Will Burn in Hell Marines) should be avoided, a line needs to be drawn and people need to be able to separate reality from the game. If you spend your whole life thinking about every possible ramification of how things might upset people you will never do anything. The child soldier example is clear example of PC stupidity. The odds of meeting a former child soldier over a game of GW are so slim as to be negligible. Even if you did I would expect them as a reasonable people and like-minded gamers to recognise that you have created an army to represent an in-universe fiction rather than having made them as some bizarre attempt to upset former child soldiers in the very unlikely event you happen to come across one. We just need to use common sense here people and everyone needs to be able to separate reality from the game. Don't make armies designed to offend people, don't take offence at armies where none is clearly intended. I agree that child soldiers are not nice Nabterayl, but neither is war and as unpalatable as it is, children are part of war, either as soldiers or casualties. If we are not including them in a game because the reality makes us uncomfortable, we shouldn't be playing a game about war either.

[ElectricPaladin]

...like making the **** Will Burn in Hell Marines...

Please, please, in the Emperor's name, tell me that this isn't a real thing.

Please.

[Wildeybeast]

I assume not. I was thinking of something suitably offensive and those Westboro Baptist nutters popped into my head. And the slang term for cigarettes is banned as well as the abbreviation for members of the Nationalist Socialist Party, but I can use the word wanker??? What gives forum overlords?

[ElectricPaladin]

I assume not. I was thinking of something suitably offensive and those Westboro Baptist nutters popped into my head. And the slang term for cigarettes is banned as well as the abbreviation for members of the Nationalist Socialist Party, but I can use the word wanker??? What gives forum overlords?

They're probably Americans. We aren't convinced that wanker is a real word, much less an insult. Most of us think it's some kind of food product, made of boiled grain and lard or something.