Two Q's re: Anrakyr

[Bedroom General]

Just wondering about a couple of things.
Can Anrakyr use Mind in the machine on flyers?
Can he use it out of a CCB now its a chariot?
He's my absolute fave Special Character, and I'd hate to use him wrong.
thanks in advance.

[Tynskel]

This should help with your problem:
[url]http://tinyurl.com/cogxmde[/url]

[Nabterayl]

Or in other words, yes, and yes.

[Bedroom General]

Uhh, thanks Tynskel, ever so helpful.
Nabterayl, thanks.
I have read the rules, and can find no specific mention of whether you can use Motm from the chariot. I may have missed something, I read the bit on chariots, and the FAQ. I haven't had the rules for long, and haven't played 6th yet, I've been pretty busy with the mundane, bill paying world. I just know that you couldn't use Motm from a chariot in 5th. I haven't read anything to say that has changed. If ya can just circle it in thick red crayon for this old thicko that'd be appreciated.
Love youse all.

[Tynskel]

No problem!

[Nabterayl]

... actually, I'm going to reverse myself on using Mind in the Machine from a chariot. I don't believe you can do that. Argument follows:

In order to use Mind in the Machine, the vehicle must be within 18" of Anrakyr and in his line of sight.

If Mind in the Machine were a shooting attack, this would be quite clear, since the entire chariot (an open-topped vehicle) counts as a fire point, and "ranges and line of sight are measured from the fire point itself" (page 78).

But of course, MitM is not a shooting attack, so we have to answer this question: are ranges and line of sight measured from the fire point for purposes of firing only, or for all purposes that an embarked model might wish to measure range and line of sight?

If the former, then although MitM can be used against flyers (because it is not a shooting attack, and therefore exempt from Hard to Hit), it cannot be used against anything from a chariot (because it is not a shooting attack, and thus Anrakyr has no rules allowing him to measure line of sight or range).

I think the answer must be that fire points count for only shooting purposes, although we have to make a roundabout trip to get confirmation. Consider page 67:

If the psychic power requires a target, you must nominate it at this point. Unless otherwise stated, the Psyker must have line, of sight to his target. This means that a Psyker embarked on
a Transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the Psyker, Similarly, a Psyker outside a Transport cannot target a unit embarked within one.

Note that this is true even if a transport has fire points: a psyker embarked even upon an open-topped vehicle could only target himself, the vehicle, or another embarked unit, because he only has line of sight to those units. We then have an explicit exception on page 69 for psychic shooting attacks and fire points, confirming that, although a psyker aboard a transport cannot see beyond the transport generally, he can when shooting a weapon - even if that weapon is his brain.

So, although Anrakyr is embarked upon an open-topped transport that is one enormous fire point, he can't actually see anything from his lofty perch unless he's looking down the barrel of a gun

[Lord Anubis]

Since MitM also isn't a psychic power, I find it tough to accept using limitations on psychic powers to create a limit on MitM.

A more likely reading (although one that would have to wait for an FAQ) is that the specific rule for open-topped transports (anyone can target, measure range, and draw line of sight in any direction) overrides the general rule for transports, which the psychic rules are based off.

MitM is not a shooting attack or a psychic attack, but it does happen in the shooting phase, require a target, a range, and a line of sight. All of which chariots allow.

Just my take.

[Nabterayl]

Open-topped transports don't have a specific rule like that, though. They have a specific rule designating the entire vehicle a fire point, and the fire point rules permit passengers to measure line of sight and range from the fire point when making a shooting attack. There is no general rule, either for fire points or for open-topped transports, saying that passengers can see out of a fire point generally ...

Unless you read page 78 to refer to measuring range and LOS generally. I think the text is ambiguous. I resort to the psyker rules to clarify the ambiguous text on page 78. In my opinion, the psyker rules make it less likely that page 78 referred to measuring range and LOS generally, and more likely that page 78 refers to measuring range and LOS for shooting attacks only.

I don't mean to say that I wouldn't allow Mind in the Machine to be used from a chariot; I certainly would. But for purposes of knowing the RAW "baseline," I see no rules permitting passengers to do anything via fire points except for shoot.

[Bedroom General]

So, you guys get what I originally posted for, an actual rule. I've known about the ambiguity for a bit.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the words of Kevin, the bloke that answered the phone at GW Adelaide.
"Its like a shooting attack from an open topped vehicle, you can use Mitm."
Its as valid as any argument, with the added cache of being an unknown source. I really enjoyed his enthusiasm though, sounded like he enjoyed his job.
I agree with the unknown Kevin on this issue.
Prove him wrong!