How do I keep brettonian knights from dying instantly?

[thecactusman17]

I've been trying to play Brettonians, the only army in fantasy I have ever had interest in.

I play a force with several units of knights. There are also two squads of archers that I recently added.

the archers are the ONLY thing that have ever managed to actually kill a unit. Once. By sheer luck of the dice.

charging does nothing. Holding back just gets me charged. Frankly, if my knights are behaving by statistical average, one unit of knights can do absolutely nothing against any unit larger than one rank.

Can somebody PLEASE give me some advice? the other day, I realistically had every right to call the game on turn two. This is very frustrating, I have spent a lot of hard earned store credit (though thankfully, not too much actual money) collecting what I have, and I am very tempted to just sell it all already after less than ten games since roughly february of this year.

[deadmanwade]

What army(s) do you usually play against? Are you being shot to pieces by ranged weapons, destroyed by magic or killed in hand to hand combat?
How many knights do you use in one unit?
Some more details would be useful.
I dont see how you're failing to beat units of more than 1 rank since your own knights can get rank bonuses a lot easier than similar units in other armies. You only need to be 3 models wide and your knights on the side of the 2nd, 3rd rank etc can also fight.
With nine knights you can attack with 7 and get a +2 combat resolution from rank bonuses.
XXX
XoX
XoX
Where X is a model that can attack and o is a model which cannot.

[Lord Azaghul]

I have to echo on this one...seriously what armies are you playing against?

Brets are a point and click army, but remember, you should always, always combo charge - especailly against blocks.

Since the odds are you'l be charging to the front, start looking at magic banners that deny your opponent rank bonuses -

always send in at least two units on any charge.

Don't waste many point on magic, you just want defence not offence.

You know you have a 6+ ward vs S4 orless and a 5+ ward vs S5 or greater right? and unlike 40k you get both your armour AND your ward.

[Yhcrana]

Are you putting a combat character in every unit of knights?

What types of knights are you taking?

Unless you are playing High Elves which always strike first, a unit of 8 knights with a character should put the hurt on nearly anything in the game. With a standard you have a SCR of 3 and the unit should get a few kills easily breaking most infantry.

Getting shot to pieces only leaves you with limited options, the best one is to charge asap, knights should get a charge off by turn 2 so you only have to weather the shooting and magic for 1 turn.

As previously mentioned you have good ward saves on your knights plus good armour saves. This is generally good for negating massed archers and magic missiles.

[thecactusman17]

A few things: Except Brettonians, I have never played any army more than once. so far this includes Empire, Brettonians, Chaos Warriors, and Wood Elves.

I get slaughtered in the magic phase because I absolutely REFUSE to play any Damsels, and the male "mage" models make we want to take a hammer to the GW sculptors. I play fantasy almost exclusively in a GW store because my FLGS is all 40k.

I play Knights of The Realm. I stopped taking the Blessing because it never ends up mattering worth a damn--either I get magicked to death or I get charged with more wounds than a puny 5+ ward can handle.

Putting two units of anything together into a charge means I lose both. EVERY. TIME.

Characters in my squad just mean that there were that many more models in it when I was killed.

And of COURSE I put Brettonians into 9 man lances. They're all dead or running by round three.

/edit: sorry if that came off as harsh. I won't change it, but this is more frustration with the game, not your advice.

Somebody pointed out that the SCR of the 9-man lance is 3. That would be great if the SCR of anything I was facing was LESS. Or if it didn't attack first, and always outnumber me by default. In fact, I would be shocked if there was anything that could manage an SCR of LESS than three--I don't think I've seen anything other than Brettonian knights who had less than four, except maybe an Empire Cannon.

[Lord Azaghul]

I absolutely REFUSE to play any Damsels,

I play Knights of The Realm. I stopped taking the Blessing because it never ends up mattering worth a damn--either I get magicked to death or I get charged with more wounds than a puny 5+ ward can handle.

Putting two units of anything together into a charge means I lose both. EVERY. TIME.

Characters in my squad just mean that there were that many more models in it when I was killed.



I won't change it, but this is more frustration with the game, not your advice.

.

Then you will always lose, because of the reason listed above. Frankly it sounds like you're doing absolutely everything wrong.
It sound like you'd be better of playing empire, mate.

[Randroid]

Hahah ...

So you lose because you refuse to do anything you should be doing with Brets and then ask for help?

The only piece of advice I can give is make sure you are getting combo charges on the enemy Flanks.

[deadmanwade]

At the very least you need one damsel to carry around dispel scrolls to prevent enemy magic from having much effect. Yes, they are kind of sucky compared to the fighter types or other races magic users, but putting one in your army will net you one extra dispel dice and the chance to counter any two enemy spells.

As for SCR
With 9 knights and a standard you should be getting +3
Most enemy infantry units will be getting +5 from ranks, outnumbering and standards
Unless the enemy are striking before you (High elves and a few other units) you should be able to cause more casualties on the charge, especially if you can get 2 units in together.

Brets are hard to use compared to some armies, but they're not impossible to win with.

Do you use a stone thrower or pegasus knights at all?

[thecactusman17]

I lose because my army was based around a historical theme, I am asking how I can improve them. From what people have explained to me, I am doing everything right. Clearly, there is something wrong.

I am unsure how I can set myself up for flank charges. This is probably the biggest issue. With 3-4 columns of knights on the board, there is no obvious way to flank charge anything without getting flank charged in return. Never mind a combo. Putting my archers forward as bait means that My knights are going to sit there in the rear, doing nothing until someone is stupid enough to charge the obvious bait units. Moving my knights up means I'm in charge range or missile range of something. Taking the blessing means I stand there for a turn, getting shot and charged. Trying some weird maneuver means that I end up in the enemies charge arc either not close enough to do anything or close enough to get charged in return, and almost never puts me on the enemies flank.

I will play "Damsels", i refuse to play with any of the GW models for mages, damsels, engineers etc. It does not look right in my army, which is intended to look realistic. Likewise, I will not use Pegasus anything or griffons. I realize these may be good units, but expressing my disdain for the models and the piss-poor fantasy setting of WHFB would likely get this thread shut down.

I want a good GAME. Please, explain to me how i can PLAY a better GAME. I am genuinely interested in advice.

[Yhcrana]

Are there any magic items in the brettonian book with magic resistance?
They could help you a lot.

Do you use Pegasus knights?
They are perfect for getting flank charges, negating the rank bonuses and therefore giving you a greater SCR.They can also be used to kill war machine crew, or kill mages.

If a mage is in a unit of archers then charge the archers, two of your knights can then attack the mage. Assuming one of these is the champion then you have 5 high WS, Str attacks. This should be able to kill the mage outright and if not the mage is in combat and cannot blast you to death, the archers can then not shoot you either and they won't have a good SCR because no ranks or standard. Alternatively you can attack the lightly armoured archers, win combat and run down the unit and the mage as you roll 3d6 and he rolls 2d6.

A good friend of mine plays Brettonians and he refused to take damsels.
He soon changed his mind as Magic is a huge part of warhammer and having no defence against it is going to hurt you.
As much as I don't like scroll caddies they are a standard part of warhammer nowadays.

What else do you run in your list?
Trebuchets are very nasty and an put the hurt on a unit you are about to charge, making them so much easier to deal with.

As much as a lot of players who play brettonia want to take all knights, there are other options in the book which have to be considered.

Other armies can take knights and some can take better knights, eg dragon princes or chaos knights. So the majority of armies will have a way to deal with a hard as nails unit of knights. The easiest option for this is war machines and magic, so you then need a way to counter magic or war machines.