Is Forgeworld stealing the Limelight

[Joe Fixit]

We have just had the 1st codex for 6th go up for pre-order and its associated models, and whilst it seems to have some interest amongst the forums, I don't think it's quite as much as we would usually see in regards to posts across the forums. The hype, for me anyway just isn't as much.
I know chaos marine players have been waiting a some time for a new book, so naturally are looking forward to the release.

However at Gamesday this year, it was evident that Forgeworld and its Horus Heresy release was what was getting the attention. I don't think I have seen such excitement for a release as this in a long time, maybe space hulk ?

I may have been interested in Chaos marines myself but after seeing so much of what Forgeworld has to offer with the Heresy. Just how nice the models are going to be I am personally not even looking at chaos now, Forgeworld have well and truly grabbed my attention.

And knowing just how much they plan to release in the future, well I can see the majority of my hobby funds going on FW products

Now I know as forum types, we are more intune with all the facets of the hobby than the guys who don't trawl the 40k related forums but do we think that Forgeworld are going to start becoming more mainstream now. I know they have always been the niche market, in a niche market but is this about to change and will GW and FW have to work closer in regards to release dates etc

I for one think they should, I understand at the end of the day all the profits go to the same place but I do think this chaos release from GW and the HH one from FW should have had more separate time frames so each release had more limelight.

Or is it just because we are hobby enthusiasts that the FW release has more meaning to us and that overall the Chao release will not be hurt at all ?

For me personally I don't like the direction the chaos book has gone (so far). Too many beasts that could fit into a fantasy setting for my tastes. The HH seems more real to me and far grittier. A 40k (30k) for an older generation maybe that offers a higher level of realism.

What do you think ?

[alshrive]

I completely understand the point you are making. I can also see the logic of releasing them at a very similar time though. The Heresy and Chaos go together like Cheese and Port, there couldn't be a more appropriate combination of releases that they could do. Also with Games Day it is a chance for both Forgeworld and Games Workshop to literal poke the geeks into a great state of excitation.

I agree that Forgeworld may be stealing the Limelight from Games Workshop this month but with the Heresy it would always steal the limelight from GW no matter what they were releasing! Next month it will all be about the Games Workshop releases again and it will probably be 6 months before another Forgeworld release comes along that starts to steal some of the focus.

As a company i can't imagine that they are going to be that fussed. A lot of people who want both the Heresy stuff and the Chaos stuff will quite simply buy both. I love forgeworld, but i would never abandon GW for FW. GW is my Hobby, FW simply enhance that by adding more. I had a perfectly enjoyable Hobby and would have been just as content if the Heresy stuff had not been released. The fact they are actually doing the Heresy now is just icing on the cake. besides with FW doing that it leaves GW to concentrate on the current canon and universe which in the years to come is what FW will then use for it's future releases.

My Two Cents (well Pence actually!)

ALShrive

[Chris*ta]

For me personally I don't like the direction the chaos book has gone (so far). Too many beasts that could fit into a fantasy setting for my tastes. The HH seems more real to me and far grittier. A 40k (30k) for an older generation maybe that offers a higher level of realism.

I really wouldn't say the new models would fit into Fantasy at all -- even the Soul Grinder barely fits into Fantasy and that's far more biological than any of the CSM models.

I also doubt the HH release is going to seriously steal much focus (and especially profits) from the release of CSM. To do an HH army requires an awful lot of cash, so there is only a very small portion of GW customers can really afford to do such an army -- quite apart from the fact that the majority of GW customers wouldn't be that interested in doing an HH army, they're 14 year olds who are far happier with the mainstream stuff.

I just can't believe that there'll be much of a loss in terms of interest in CSM because of the FW release for the vast majority of GW customers -- I think most customers don't care about HH. Also, remember that GW is one company, they wouldn't have released the HH stuff at the same time as CSM if they thought it would be a problem -- they're not that stupid.

I also agree with Alshrive that in a couple of months GW won't be promoting FW much at all and most customers will have forgotten about it.

This said, there may be a few customers who would have started/resurrected a Chaos army who didn't because of the HH release and the decision to start a new army there. However, I think these players will go back to CSM within say 6 months, so GW will still get the money they would have otherwise spent on CSM.

[DarkDesigner]

I agree that the CSM and Horus Heresy are very good releases to do together, as players can choose between making just a HH force, just a GW CSM force, or even a CSM force using mainly HH models to represent 10,000 year old marines, or even something in between. But then I do feel if they had been released separately, with the HH going alongside something from Fantasy perhaps, there would have been less of an impact. After all, people not at all interested in the Heresy are unlikely to be interested in Chaos Marines either.

However if Forgeworld are stealing the limelight, it's because GW aren't doing enough to compete with them. Personally I think for the most part the new models are gorgeous, but there have been plenty of mixed reviews of these, and there have been models recently that just haven't done it for me at all. But FW have produced models at a consistently high standard for a long while.

The thing is, since their latest price increases, and with Forge World's quality always coming at a high price, I'm not buying into either, not on my current income. So as exciting as the Chaos and Heresy releases are, GW won't be seeing any more of my money until they seriously re-evaluate the value of their product.

[Chris*ta]

The thing is, since their latest price increases, and with Forge World's quality always coming at a high price, I'm not buying into either, not on my current income. So as exciting as the Chaos and Heresy releases are, GW won't be seeing any more of my money until they seriously re-evaluate the value of their product.

You may be waiting some time then ...

[DarkDesigner]

You may be waiting some time then ...

It's alright, I've discovered WarmaHordes and Malifaux. I realise neither are particularly cheap as such, but at least the initial outlay for a game-ready force is far lower.

[Joe Fixit]

Sorry Chris, I didn't explain myself clearly. When I ment that the models looked more fantasy, I didn't mean the game. What I am trying to say is that these new models in my opinion are too much of a blend of sci-fi and fantasy as in themed, similar to say steam punk can be. It's not necessarily a bad thing if that's what you like. I don't.
I really liked what they did with the Hellbrute, I think because I can understand that idea behind the model is a fussion of pilot and machine becoming melded by the warp.
The deamonic beasts are not for me, and that's fine. I am sure many dislike necrons. I happen to like them.

Going back to the my thoughts on FW, you and others are correct when you say that cost alone will keep pre-heresy armies as unattainable for most.

I think most players will end up buying a few nice models and use them in their current marine army. Personally I have ordered the book, but it may just be a re-run of me looking at the Argos catalogue as a kid at Christmas, wanting it all but actually quite happy with what I actually ended up with.

[Chris*ta]

See, they don't feel fantasy to me (almost) at all.

They read like the sort of crazy tech that you'd build if you were a) sent mad by Chaos and b) lived on a daemon world where the normal laws of physics didn't apply.

and personally, I can't stand Warmahordes. The "play like you've got a pair" thing seems awfully offensive, I strongly dislike the fact that every game has the same objective -- to kill the enemy commander, I dislike that every faction has one expected colour scheme, and I've seen a bunch of models that would be embarrassing compared to GW in the late 80s. Not that I'm a hater, or anything

Disclaimer: blah blah blah ... just my opinion ... let's not turn this into a PP vs GW discussion ... my opinion won't be changed anyway ...I might be stating my opinions overly strongly anyway ...

[DarkLink]

Actually, there's an array of different objectives in warmachine tournament scenarios. Killing the warcaster is one of them, just like tabling your opponent is present in 40k, but it's often easier to win by claiming objectives or holding a position.

[Mr Mystery]

To be fair, I think the release of a Horus Heresy expansion would overshadow pretty much anything. It's always been of interest to 40k Gamers, and even more so since the really rather wonderful Black Library series.

CSM will sell well anyway. They're one of the longest established armies out there, and a perennially popular one. Shiny new characters are out, spangly new Daemon Engines (though to be fair, still not convinced by the flier. May grow on me once I see it in the flesh though) and of course Cultists. Nothing there for established players not to like.

I'll be interested to see how well existing CSM armies work with the new book. I do my best to ignore rumours, as their veracity is all too often questionable, and to be honest I find the rumour threads themselves a depressing exercise in futility, as Johnny 10,000 posts declare the army to be bunkum without ever having seen the actual product, so forgive me if I mention things you might think are common knowledge!

Why so interested? The Necron and Dark Eldar codecies were well designed to cater for those existing armies, and I do wonder if they've pulled it off with the CSM book. Will the new units be utterly compulsory, or more something an existing army can take or leave?