Are Orks competitive?

[MajorSoB]

Orks are competitive, and you might know that if you would have showed up at your local tourney! We had two Ork armies finish near the top. ( I know it was a comp heavy tourney right, and that is why huh? Wrong, comp was only 10%!!!! ...Oh that's right you didnt like the missions too, right? They were based on the Adepticon missions, you know that big tourney in Chicago that no one plays at!)

To refresh your memory, the tourney that I speak of was the third annual DaBoyz GT event, sponsored by the former winners of the Adepticon Team tournament. Guess what they won Adepticon with? Yep, Orks! I suppose the competition at Adepticon must have just been too soft.

How about the 'Ard Boyz tourney? Two year the Ork battlewagon army from hell placed very high in the finals and dominated all rounds between, but I suppose that was coincidental huh?

Face it Orks are quite playable and in some forms pretty freaking burly. ( Its OK to be wrong sometimes!)

So tell me if Orks suck so bad why were you going to bring them to our tourney before you pulled a no show? I don't really care so don't even bother going there, but a little consistency might be nice.

Have a nice day!

[Yhcrana]

What were the scenarios like? What was the overall skill level of other players? How good were their lists? Soft scores in play? These things tend to have a big influence on how certain armies do. In a comp-heavy environment Orks do well because their Troops are useful, while Tau get roflstomped because their Troops suck and they lose points right out of the gate.

Scenarios were a mix of objectives and kill points, certain units being worth more kill points than others.
The ork player who won is regarded as one of the best 40k players in the local scene and has numerous trophies to his name.
Soft scores were about 40% of the total points.

If i can remember right his list was:

Warboss - on foot with everything
big mek - kff
8 mega armour nobs -battlewagon
truck boys
2 x 30 boys
10 grots
4 dethkoptas
6 killa kans

[Chumbalaya]

@MajorSoB: Yeah, I was all set to go for the tourney. Then I ran into an IRL problem that night and couldn't make it. Very bummed about it.

I was going for Orks because they're my favorite army. I wasn't going to get anything anyway since they aren't painted and I figure my goofy army would fit well with goofy scenarios. I hope I'll be able to attend next year, maybe I'll paint something by then

I really don't see why Orks are held in such high regard. Even the so called powerbuilds are pretty easy to counter. Nob Bikers = S8 pies and tank shock, TH/SS Termies pwn, Battlewagons = open-topped, low AV on sides and rear, and they can't do anything but get close (melta range, yayz, or easy side/rear shots), Green Tide = Durpity durp I have 0 mobility and can't kill armor. Something's not clicking and I sure hope it isn't me.

Maybe the guys running the army are just really good. Necrons and Tyranids are terribad too (Orks aren't quite this far gone), but they've won tournies before. If anything, winning with a sub-par army is a much better accomplishment.

I dunno much about Adepticon, but the FAQ they use is a travesty (hooray for arbitrary rewrites!) and if the scenarios are wonky go nuts I don't see how it could be much measure of anything beyond who got lucky and brought the army least hamstrung by them.

Hope I can go next year, maybe my IG will be done. Or I'll bring Chaos Spawn/Possessed spam and totally stomp all over y'all :P

@Yhcrana:

I think I read his batreps on Dakka, I liked them. Competition didn't look too stiff, but he played his army well and definitely proved that player skill > army limitations.

[SandWyrm]

Orks do well at tournies because they are great at stomping over armies that haven't converted to 5th ed. Sad to say we still have that problem, and Orks are more or less tailor made to crush them. Once people figure out how to mech up and play 5th, Orks are in for a world of hurt. They also benefit greatly from soft scoring and silly tourney missions that screw up game balance.

Speaking as a 5th Ed tourney player who *has* completely mechanized his IG, I'd rate Orks as being more dangerous to me than MEQs. I eat Marines for breakfast, but a good Ork list played by an opponent who knows what he's doing can still beat me around a quarter of the time. Mostly because it's so easy to construct unique builds with that codex. Which means that I can be thrown off when they pull some rabbit out of their hat that I wasn't expecting.

Case in point: 'Ard Boyz - Round II

There were 22 'Ard Boyz players at the store I went to, 19 of which were full or 90% mechanized lists (Mostly Chaos, Codex Marines, and IG). Yet all three winners at the end of the day were Orks. One was a full mech Battlewagon list, one was mixed mech+infantry, and the last one (who beat me down on table 3) was all-infantry. Pure luck would explain one or two of those winners, but not all 3.

[Confuddled]

I’d actually agree that Orks aren’t all that competitive, especially at higher point levels.

Caveats would apply, of course.

Lots of considerations – luck of the draw, size of the player pool, resources of players involved (not every Guard player is going to have the resources to field 10+ Chimera chassis…), geographical rulings(deff rollas affecting vehicles, for instance – it is NOT a global ruling), terrain distribution, scenarios and so on and so forth.


Imho, the single biggest factor, however, would be the size of the game.


A Guard army could theoretically field up to 6 chimeras and 55 men as a single troop choice, those 6 Chimeras and 55 men take up 40% of a 1500-point army (600-odd points before upgrades).

However, that’s 600+ points less to spend on units to cover your other bases – Valkyries, HQ choices, ordnance and Russ squadrons. So odds are your average 1500-point Guard army is going to have, maybe, 4 Chimeras, a pair of Hydras, maybe 3 other vehicles of varying marks.

1850 points? 32%
2000 points? 30%

Same thing applies to more elite armies – Space Wolves, Space Marines, Tau… The higher the point limit, the more easy it is for other armies to field the support units they require.

In contrast, Ork armies suffer badly from the Law of Diminishing Returns, as the edjukated types put it...

Its fairly easy to efficiently fill most of your HQ/troop/elite slots at a relatively low point level. Once you’ve peaked, however, any other points you spend aren’t going to contribute all THAT much to your army – a 1850-point Ork army isn’t all that much more effective compared to a 1500-point Ork army.

[Confuddled]

Pure luck would explain one or two of those winners, but not all 3.

Are we talking about in-game luck, luck of the draw or both?

Case in point: 'Ard Boyz - Round II

There were 22 'Ard Boyz players at the store I went to, 19 of which were full or 90% mechanized lists (Mostly Chaos, Codex Marines, and IG). Yet all three winners at the end of the day were Orks.

Fair enough.

If you're looking at tournament results, however, looking at the [url=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=4&a Id=9500009&start=5]finals[/url], Orks make up the single largest contingent (14 players out of 64 – 21%), and yet, there is only 1 Ork player in the top 5.

In the top 10? 2 Orks.
Top 20? Slightly better – 5 Orks.

Standard caveats (luck of draw, skill, terrain etc) apply, but still rather telling, I believe...

[RocketRollRebel]

Orks are definatly competative. My IG were flying high in 2nd place at the last tourny till I hit a wall of 190 orks!(got an award for it even ;p) They ended up with best overall but i'd definatly place orks up there in the top teir along with IG and CSM.

[mercer]

I like Orks, they are my fun army but I don't take them seriously and aren't a competitive army. Ok, they have won tournaments but are the tournaments running in th past? Coming 2 years ago Orks were good, but with mech armies on the rise they are not. Do tournaments run mech armies, or still running around on foot and with lash of submission and biker nobz? I think thats what the score is here.

[Melissia]

Sure they are, if you can use them right.


You can, can't you?

[DoctorEvil]

I became an Ork player by accident (I "accidentially" kept all the Ork from 2 boxes of AoBR).

As I was trying to make a cohesive army list from the jumble of Ork stuff I had, I realized "I'm going to have a difficult time dealing with vehicles". Given that 5th edition has put a emphasis on mechanized, I think that fact alone hampers the competitiveness of the Ork Codex, especially when compared to the new Codii.

I think in general, a "competitive" army list will will have reliable options to deal with what the enemy throws at you (anti light armor, anti hvy armor, anti-horder, anti-MEQ, etc.....). It will also have options that force your opponent to react to you.

Do Ork armies really care about what the opponent has? They really seem like the "Bull in the China Shop", they just don't care. Orks aren't about have options to deal with the enemy, they're about forcing the opponent to react. So when compared to the new army lists like SM and IG, Orks really don't appear "competitive"

That's not to say a skilled player can't win with them. The handicap an Ork list present can obviously be overcome, by a good player. But all things being equal, other Codii have a pretty big advantages for competitive list building in my opinion.