Space Marines - Why the Hate?

[ElectricPaladin]

This thread does what it says on the tin: why the hate?

The context is important here.

For one thing, I have recently started a Blood Ravens army, using the vanilla Marines codex as my basis (I don't think they need a codex of their own, but if the rumors are true, I really hope they get a banner in the new Marines codex). When I tell people that my previous armies are Tau and Blood Ravens, I tend to get a negative reaction, as though I've somehow given up on playing an army that is unique, cool, and fair in order to be competitive.

The thing is, most of the Marines chapters seem to have pretty cool stories, and power armor can be fun to paint, with all its little bits and bobs and decorations.

Secondly, I just played my first two games with my new army, and it was an interesting experience. I don't feel like my new models are "easy-button" or anything like that. In fact, in some ways they were extremely challenging, and not just because they were new. Without a strong focus on any one thing, the way Orks and Tyranids focus on assault, Blood Angels focus on maneuverability, or Imperial Guard and Tau focus on shooting, I had to be very careful and tactical in order to achieve anything. The unusually high durability of my troops was actually a pretty thin compensation for the lack of specialization. My dudes needed to be tough, because I didn't have a ton of them, they didn't drop out of the sky, they have mediocre strength weapons, and they don't kill everything in assault.

Based on my experiences, I have to wonder... where's the hate from? Why do people seem to dislike the Marines as a faction?

[Kyban]

Too many people play them, plain and simple. Most players like to see others start a new army in something other than marines, once you've played them for a little while I'm sure they'll just accept that and as a player you won't receive any more stigma for it but marines in general are viewed as too common and uniform where people like to see a variety of armies across the board from them. At least, that's my impression.

[inquisitorsog]

This thread does what it says on the tin: why the hate?
...as though I've somehow given up on playing an army that is unique, cool, and fair in order to be competitive.
....
Based on my experiences, I have to wonder... where's the hate from? Why do people seem to dislike the Marines as a faction?

Because they are rammed down our collective throat to the extent that they become tedious. There's also a perception that the space marine flavors get all the love from GW, hence represent the "lazy" choice, so you partly answered your own question.

[Deadlift]

I think the hate also stems from xeno players to some extent.

You know the type, whine and moan constantly that the imperium based armies, especially marines in all their guise are constantly under the GW limelight. That their more unique army of whatever is being left behind. And to be fair they would have a point. But then GW has always said that the imperium is the focus of 40k lore.
Throw FW into the mix and you can understand why the non marine and imperial guard players feel a little left out. Some, not all xeno players then tend to vent their fury at the marine enthusiasts.

Myself, I love space marines in all their colours. For me the only problem I have is how to bloody choose what chapter to choose next.

Oh and they are bloody popular aren't they, it's a rolling stone really, space marines sell, so GW is quite focused on them and they get nice updates and new models, which in turn sells even more models, rinse and repeat.

[Kyban]

I just solve it by having multiple armies!

[Deadlift]

With respect to the author of this quote. His statement is exactly what I ment in reply to your question ElectricPaladin. The xeno enthusiast who is fed up with GW seemingly concentrating on power armour. Fairly enough too in some respects. I hope GW addresses the balance next year with Tau and Eldar releases.

No offence intended to you inquisitorsog. Just using your quote as an example

Because they are rammed down our collective throat to the extent that they become tedious. There's also a perception that the space marine flavors get all the love from GW, hence represent the "lazy" choice, so you partly answered your own question.

[imperialpower]

They are very common and have a lot of powerfull characters and of course are a powerfull army since they are supposed to be super humans after all but I think the main hate is the attention they get from GW if you compare the fact that a lot of the chapters have their own codex and special rules, models ect then compare that to Eldar just as a comparison who have one codex even though there are different Craftworlds to choose from. Space marines are basicly GW special child that they pay more attention to and as a bussiness they should and do capitalise on the fact that they are so popular.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

People can say what they want. The real reason is that it's cool to hate the cool things. Let people play what they want, if someone likes it and aren't painting Tzeentch Flamers to go in an "All Khorne Army" (Like I've seen in the past) then it's good to go by my count.

[ElectricPaladin]

I mean, contemplating the neglect my Tau have suffered through the years, I see where they might be coming from. All the same, I really don't think anything is wrong with the Marines as they stand. For all that I love what the Tau and Blood Angels are supposed to be, the fact is that of all the armies I play right now my Marines are the only army that actually is what it's supposed to be.

Perhaps that's a symptom of the problem? Or is it just that this is where we are in the release cycle?

[Anggul]

Presumably because depending on the writer they can range anywhere from very strong but with some weaknesses and are amazing in some situations and not so much in others (as they should be) to absolutely-ridiculous-they-could-never-pull-that-off-stupid. The latter is usually Ward making even the Marine fans rage at the silliness.

I don't know about everyone else but I don't like it when a faction which I like is portrayed as the best thing ever and smashing everything else. It's boring and I often know how that encounter would really go. Fair enough in some situations some factiosn excel and annihilate, but with Marines that seems to be almost every situation, even those in which their role as a low-numbers elite strike force would see them not much better than most and probably killed.

I'll put it this way: If, in the next Eldar codex, the writer wrote a story about an Eldar strike force swarming across a battlefield in a straight line toward the enemy force, and they took next to no casualties and won in a glorious fashion... I would say, despite my favour for the Eldar, that it was stupid, didn't fit their fluff in any way, and doesn't make sense at all. If you like something and it's blown out of proportion or does something it's incapable of then it's no longer the thing you liked. If, on the other hand, those Eldar conducted surgical precision strikes with excellent timing (some might say they knew what was going to happen before it happened, wink wink) and took minimal casualties and succeeded in crippling the enemy force so that what was left could be swept away with one final focussed assault, then I would think: 'This is an excellent representation of the strengths of the Eldar.' Similarly, if a planet was under attack and a Space Marine Chapter arrived, collaborated with the Imperial Navy present to clear a path for a boarding run, and a couple of important enemy ships were successfully boarded via boarding torpedo, resulting in close-quarters fighting aboard the corridors of a ship where the tough, strong, elite space marines would be in their prime in a combat zone which, while brutal, the enemy hasn't the room or co-ordination to bring their numbers to bear, and not the individual personnel strength to defeat the Marines, crucial targets were neutralised and the ship was taken, allowing the strike cruisers and imperial navy to defeat the opposing navy, then I would think: 'This is an excellent representation of the strengths of the Space Marines.'

Rather than: 'They ran into battle and somehow fought their way through the enemy without just being shelled, bombed, and all manner of other easily deployable (and very much capable of blowing away even a marine) weapons because they are the bestest and can punch everyone and win.'