New codex is in. What do you think of it?

[The Shadow King]

Terminators with toughness 5 and feel no pain are very different from mere bikes with feel no pain so no comparison there. Also the icon would have had to have given more than just feel no pain if nurgly as otherwise plague marines would never take the icon, or if they had their feel no pain taken away, be forced into taking the icon.

No matter what you might think, there was only one Daemon weapon before. You had the mark of Slannesh you had one choice, the same with the other marks. Now you have the choice or a daemon weapon, no matter how you are marked, plus many other choices. The equipment options for Chaos Lords is much greater than before. Besides if you really want your Daemon weapon to be AP4 ie even nastier than it is now, just give it to your Daemon Prince, wullah AP2

Not sure about the Terminator weapons thing without the book in front of me.

Take more Obliterators if you like, leadership tests for them are pretty irrelevant nonetheless, or if you're really desperate for them to be fearless, lead them with a warpsmith or something.

If you have a Daemon prince in combat with a single psyker and he can't kill it before the psyker manages to strike back, then you are having terrible luck. Even then you're WS 9, T 5, with an invulnerable save. Not in a whole lot of trouble against a single force weapon.

[The Shadow King]

Without looking at the book, I imagine the terminator thing is actually saying that you can swap the power weapon for one item, the combie bolter for one item or both for one item, rather than one of them for one item.

[Archon]

I like how the Blastmaster is also a pinning weapon. Really quite nasty!

They're pretty saucy for Overwatch as well.

Definitely a horrible unit to face in a cityfight.

Do you like to buy 10 Marines to get a single BM? That means the availability is halved.

Overall I can't help but feel dissapointed, but maybe this style and balance will extend to future codex releases?

Yes, DA will be the next victim - all shiny, but in the end a littel meh -especially when compared to the actual power-books (SW; GK; BA). Maybe one or two codecies in the same flavor and then - bash a new round of power for the shiny Marines

I think it is intentional, but it is just silly. I never ran combi-spam terminators myself, but I know a lot of Chaos players definitely did, and being forced to count their combi-weapons as combi-bolters or, worse yet, rip off the arms is bad.

Why talk about combi-spam? When I look to my terminators (numbering 20 - ten in plastik, build over the last couple of years and ten in metal, mostly secon-hand) I will found a lot of dudes wich will be illegal issued - non of them were spam! They build 4 teams with a flexible loadout of weapons.

This new wording for the options of the terminators is simply stupid. Forcing players to proxy or to rip off their stuff. I don´t have some extra shoulder pads for a weapon change. So what is the meaning of this wording anyway? I hope for a stupid error so far.

I think what he was referring to was options outside of just daemon weapons. In that sense, we got stuff like the Burning Brand, the Scrolls of Magnus, the Murder Sword, etc. The lack of daemon weapons hurts but we've gotten what would probably be called more interesting and unique options instead. The Black Mace isn't AP2, but it will still force a lot of saves; fleshbane makes it a potent monstrous-creature hunting weapon. Whilst not as good as the old Plaguebearer, in that sense, you aren't restricted to Nurgle with it. Not that I disagree with you, I wish there were more daemon weapons.

It just bad, that they are no generic deamon-weapons. A DW has one porpose to kill lots of stuff and with stuff I mean space marines. The old one was still fine. Things change, yes, but only to worse? The only MEQ killing D-weapon is khornate. The only other is AP4 and has very complicated rules, wich is not deadly straight forward but takes a lot of time wich to explain to your opponent and only enfold at the end of the combatphase (wich means the sm-lord with thunderhammer und stormshield has punched you to a heap of meat, bone and armourfragments). Very fitting.

Take a closer look the other artefacts. The Sword is fine, if you will spend the game chasing your opponents warlord with your own. That was it.
The Flamer is fine, no question. The Key is somewhat unnecessary. If you kill something in cc, its mid. of round 2 (earlyst). By then it is very low chance that your terminators (the one with proxy weapons) a still in reserve. Realisticaly we talking of mid. round 3. So rules not complety overthought. The Scroll is risky one (your sorcerer has only to wounds) and will still not bring you the right spell. You have to by desperate to take this one (or have a lots of points left and willing to play spell-heavy).

[Kirsten]

unfortunately not, you can either upgrade the power weapon, or the combi weapon, but not both, which is annoying for my combi melta/plasma powerfist terminators.

Archon if you were a transformer you would be negatron :P

[Archon]

unfortunately not, you can either upgrade the power weapon, or the combi weapon, but not both, which is annoying for my combi melta/plasma powerfist terminators.

Archon if you were a transformer you would be negatron :P

Yes - but "Es ist ja, wie es ist!"

[Daemonette666]

I don't really have a problem with the Obliterator changes, it's a nerf by losing Fearless but how often will they realistically run off the table if you are using them properly?

I think there is a possible upside to Obliterators losing fearless. They can not overwatch fire, and do not get defensive grenades. They are also armed with Power fists so unless you want to hit the enemy with your lascannon, you are using an unwieldy weapon. Basically the enemy get to charge in without you overwatching and if they have grenades, they get to strike first in most cases (unless also carrying unwieldy weapons).

What if the enemy use one unit with plasma cannons or plasma guns to shoot your obliterators while another who uses pistols charges you? You are only left with a cover save or your invul save. Say you in 4+ cover, you can now choose to " go to ground" Slow and purposeful" does not make going to ground impossible, so you now get a 3+ cover save against the plasma weapons, and a 2+ armour save against anything not AP 2.

With a LD of 8 or 9, depending on your upgrading with VOTLW, they are less likely to fail a LD test than most units in 40K.

The only downside is if your Oblits fail the LD test in close combat, and then get run down by the pursing enemy.

[Daemonette666]

Yeah definitely, basically all you would need to do are minor tweaks i.e. true cult terminators, maybe an extra special character or two for the un-represented legions, some more specific rules for Alpha Legion and Night Lords such as purchasing Infiltrate, Raptors as Troops, etc.
I hope so! I met a great guy on the weekend who is an ardent collector of Sisters of Battle and Alpha Legion, and he seemed pretty content with the situation for both - he mostly made light of it. However, you can tell a lot of players are getting the short end of the stick.

I would love to see both cult terminators and Havocs for the Emperors Children - Noise weapons all round. Throw in a cult chosen with the option for every model replacing their bolter with a doom siren. and their CCW with a power weapon (very expensive unit I know) and they are kick a** in close combat. Predators and Dreadnoughts, sorry Hell Brutes with Sonic Weapons.

Every Legion could have it's classic bonuses.

Iron Warriors - tank hunter havocs, Squad Champions get Servo Arms as possible upgrade, able to use 1 heavy support vehicle - tank or artillery form either codex space marine or Imperial Guard. ability to pay for a certain ammount of terrain as fortified, or have mine fields or other defensive terrain like razor wire.

Night Lords - Night Vision, cause fear, Elites get infiltrate, bikers get outflank, predators and vindicators become fast vehicles. No chaos marks, except on daemon lords which are now forced.

Alpha Legion - all units except Terminators, spawn and vehicles get infiltrate, scout, outflank, shroud and move through cover, although bikers, raptors and warp talons only get scout, move through cover and outflank.

They could design rules like these for the legion specific forces. Mine are just examples of what I think would be a good Idea, to suit their fluff fighting styles.

[magickbk]

Played against the new Codex for the first time last night. I had Inquisition Henchmen w/ Imperial Guard allies, he had a Tzeentch-leaning army. Overall, I thought the change was a boost for Chaos. Our armies were very similar to what we fielded in the last game before the Codex. My opponent swapped out some Chaos Marines for a large number of Cultists, and dropped in a Helbrute and a Forgefiend. The Forgefiend was a great weapon platform, and I had trouble trying to chew through all those Cultists.

I know everyone was hoping for a Codex that would allow fielding of the original Legions, and I was as well, but I think this Codex is a considerable improvement over the old one. There's always the possibility if White Dwarf continues to improve that they would bring something like the Index Astartes back with Legion rules, or that they specifically didn't do that in favor of letting Forgeworld develop those.

[DarkLink]

could you people please stop using silly arguments that were never raised untill you needed to justify stupid changes to yourselves

Dude, quit being a dick. You seem massively butt-hurt by the new codex, that doesn't mean you need to be an *** to other posters.

While I generally agree with you that the rule should be a little more forgiving, it's worth noting that a 25mm base is actually a little under an inch.

1"=25.4mm, to be precise.

[Bean]

1"=25.4mm, to be precise.

I think point four millimeters counts as "a little."