New codex is in. What do you think of it?

[Daemonette666]

I personally think some of the units have had their abilities reduced. Some have had them enhanced. Others have had their prices reduced to a manageable level. Some units are just silly, and I see no reason why they introduced them. as we already have the defiler and dreadnought/hellbrute.

Some of the new rule and upgrades are good, but you have to pay for them.

I personally would have liked them to allow you to theme your army to represent a post heresy Legion. Night Lords, Alpha Legion, do not get any form of representation with these rules. Iron warriors and Word Bearers get HQs, but they do not allow for night vision skill (night lords), or tank hunter skill (iron warriors). I can still theme an army - sort of with noise marines, thousand sons, plague marines or berserkers, but these mean other armies will generally look the same. The only way to make a unit into a classic - we have been fighting the long fight is to give them veterans of the long war upgrade.

I love obliterators now, but would have loved for them to have a max of 5 models in the unit. The same with mutilators.

I would love to have been able to design a night lords army with extra raptors (which should be allowed to count as scoring), then have all models with night vision, and chosen, get outflank/infiltrate.

An alpha legion character would have allowed for all CSMs and chosen to get infiltrate and shroud, and allow certain troops to outflank.

Well the codex is out now, and we can not change it, so what can you do now if you want to theme your army and make it work as close to your chosen legions historical abilities and tactics?

I am pretty much set as I have an Emperor's Children army, but my Night Lords army is going to be just another CSM army with no marks of chaos at all.

I suppose I will have to re-design all my lists I have typed up, while I am waiting for Army Builder to bring out a new update for the CSM codex.

I will have to have a full read of the codex before I make my mind up, but all in all, they have not completely screwed it it, but it is not want I and a lot of older chaos players would have wanted. Rather than add in a lot of weird new war machines, I wanted a new hover/flying transport, some equipment and unit price decreases, and some of the units maximum unit size increased not decreased. At 15 points possessed is still not worth it.

I suppose many will like somethings, and hate other things. The codex is better than the last one, but it could have been way better without being too over powered. Now it just has somethings nerfed, others improved, but at cost, and somethings just so over powered that I will probably not use them. Especially when they cost so much for the new models in Australia.

I do not have a utter hatred for Phil Kelly for what he has done with this codex like I did with Gav and Alessio for what they did with the last one. I know many still hate Matt Ward for his Grey Knights codex or some of the Fluff it introduced. I have not yet have had a chance to decide how I feel about this codex.

Most things are evened out for their price, and to make them super over powered, you have to pay a lot more points in upgrades. Thankfully standard weapons are now a bit cheaper. I would have like to see flamers and missile launchers as free upgrades for standard CSM squads, but that is just my opinion.

I still can not believe I had to pay $83.00 for the codex though.

[Mr Mystery]

Having managed to **** up the destination for my order, likely won't get mine until Monday.

I'm sure I said store instead of home, but seems not!

As for legion specific stuff, house rule it.

[Daemonette666]

I suppose so. Many of my opponents would have to check the rules being used, but if they are not over powered, and in some cases, I pay the appropriate points for them, I am sure they would not disagree with my using a few house rules for certain chaos armies.

I checked Typhus looking for the Plague Zombie rule, because I remember someone asking on a thread on one website I am on. Probably not this one. Human stats with a 6+ save, no weapon upgrades, fearless, FNP and Slow and Purposeful for about 4 points per model. They could certainly absorb a lot of damage before they finally went down, but too many plasma cannons and they are gone very quickly. They would make the army very interesting. Although they do not get it, imagine if they also got without number. It would be very amusing and frustrating to your opponent.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I find it very amusing.

I like how I have so much in 1000 points!

Warpsmith, Mark of Tzeentch, Aura of Dark Glory

20 Cultists
2 Heavy Stubbers
Autoguns
Shotgun

30 Cultists
2 Flamers

Helldrake

2 Maulerfiends

8 Havocs
2 Missile Launchers
2 Autocannons

[Daemonette666]

This was pointed out to me today by an ex GW staff member at my local store. On page 41 Chaos Spawn under the heading Random Attacks:

at the beginning of each fight sub-phase roll a D6 for each friendly chaos spawn unit locked in combat. The result is the number of attacks, (before modifiers) that all chaos spawn in that unit have this turn.

In a normal FOC that is 3 units. In a double FOC size game 6 or even more for apoc. With this in mind and using just 3 units you could do this.

I charge 3 units of chaos spawn 5 strong, along with another unit to absorb the overwatch shooting. Each chaos spawn now rolls 3 D6 each, because there are 3 friendly chaos spawn locked in combat. Each model in the unit had 3D6 attacks. so you could get anywhere from 60 attack if each unit rolled tripple 1s, or up to 285 attacks if each unit rolled tripple 6s (6 x 3 + charge bonus x 5 models x 3 units). That is from just 15 models worth 30 points each.

I know they are very fragile, and will die fairly quickly if you face elite enemy with lots of high strength weapons. But just think of how your opponent will cringe when you roll 95 dice for each unit of spawn.

RAW vs RAI I do not know what GW intended with this one, but I intend to run them like this unless it gets FAQd

[Houghten]

Wow, it didn't take long at all for ridiculous interpretations of rules to start creeping out of the woodwork, did it?

In a word: no. In a few more words: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, noooo.

Each unit has d6 attacks per model. It doesn't say anywhere that you use the total result.

[The Madman]

How did you get that wrong? it says "roll a D6 for each friendly chaos spawn unit that is locked in combat." that means the Squad not each individual spawn model.

Example:
a unit of three Chaos spawn are in combat in the fight sub-phase, the roll of the single dice for the unit is 5. the three spawn get 5 attacks each (numbering 15).

if it was a D6 for each chaos spawn it would be written as "roll a D6 for each friendly chaos spawn in a unit that is locked in combat."

so the max attacks (before modifiers) a Unit of 5 spawn is 30 (40 if charging from Rage's 2+ attacks on charge).

if the rules went how you interpreted them then spawn and possessed would get multiple rolls on their tables.

[Kirsten]

lots of good stuff in there, but once again if you want an undivided army you are severly limited in the fun stuff available.

[Daemonette666]

Wow, it didn't take long at all for ridiculous interpretations of rules to start creeping out of the woodwork, did it?

In a word: no. In a few more words: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, noooo.

Each unit has d6 attacks per model. It doesn't say anywhere that you use the total result.

O.k. I am not going to use that rule interpretation, but you can see my point. and just threatening to use the rule that way made people react badly to it.

Oh and madman, the rule interpretations was not for each chaos spawn attacking in the fight sub-phase, it was for each friendly chaos spawn unit locked in combat in the fight sub-phase. If read with the inflection in a certain way you could think it meant that you worked out how many friendly chaos spawn units were locked in combat then this is the number of D6 a unit rolls to determine each spawns number of attacks in that unit , before modifiers like assault bonus are applied. multiply this by the number of models in the unit. The interpretation then implies that each unit would roll X D6 (where X is the number of friendly spawn units locked in combat. It is also worded very badly so you could interpret it as being a friendly unit locked in combat in the other side of the table as well.

You see my point. I was trying to show how well GW has proof read the rules, and had neutral test gamers check the rules and try to get the best interpretation out of them to bend the rule. This way they could make sure rules were unable to be interpreted or confused like this.

Each spawn unit would roll on their tables before each fight sub-phase to determine what type of mutation they were getting and roll only once as these are used to determine their mutation for the round, not their random attacks. So I think you misinterpreted what I said there. I did forget that rage gave +2 attacks on the charge though.

My example would then be you roll - X D6 (X = no of spawn units = 3) add in the charge bonus +2, then multiply this by the number of spawn in the unit. So a unit of 5 spawn could have up to 100 attacks (20 each on the charge) using this example of the misinterpreted rule. I know it is a silly interpretation, and I mentioned it to show a point. GW will probably FAQ it.

[DarkLink]

Reading comprehension, people. There's a reason they teach it in school.


Edit:
Anyways, here's why he's wrong.

at the beginning of each fight sub-phase roll a D6 for each friendly chaos spawn unit locked in combat.

So you roll one dice for each spawn unit, simple. This could go either way.

The result is the number of attacks, (before modifiers) that all chaos spawn in that unit have this turn.

However, here you see that, after rolling a dice for that unit, the spawn in that unit get the d6 attacks. The second sentance specifically links each d6 to a particular unit, and limits the results to that unit alone.