1500pt CSM force ideas

[entendre_entendre]

Alrighty, I have 2 1500pt lists bouncing around in my brain and I want a bit of feedback on them from you guys C&C welcome. The first is what I dub the 'Kharn Cannonball Special', a close range damager focused on transport borne squads of marines and the uber cheese Black Mace DP. The second is my take on a 'shooty' list based on my Iron Warrrior army. The numbers in brackets are squad sizes. Without further ado the lists:

The Kharn Cannonball Special:
HQ
Kharn the Betrayer - 160 (Warlord)

Daemon Prince - 265
Mark of Nurgle, Power Armour, Wings, Black Mace

Troops
Chaos Marines - 192
(9) 7x BP + CCW, Mark of Khorne, Icon of Wrath, 1x Meltagun + BP + extra CCW, Champion: power weapon

Chaos Marines - 243
(10) x9 CCW, x2 Meltaguns, Veterans of the Long War, Champion: power weapon, meltabombs; Rhino

Chaos Marines - 258
(10) x9 CCW, x2 Plasmaguns, VotLW, Champion: Power fist; Rhino

Cultists - 71
(12) x8 autoguns, heavy stubber

Heavy Support
Land Raider - 235
Dirge Caster

Obliterator - 76
Mark of Nurgle
/1500

Basic strategy: Kharn + Khorne Marines in Land Raider go forth and cause ruckus in enemy lines and probably die, other 2 CSM squads drive up and take mid objectives/deal with threats, Cultists hold rear objective(s) after coming in from reserve. DP wrecks people's day as needed. Not much long range firepower though.

'Iron Warriors' list:
HQ
Chaos Lord - 157
Terminator Armour, Combi-Melta, Murder Sword, Gift of Mutation

Elites
Terminators - 241
(5) Reaper autocannon + chainfist, twin lightning claws, Champ: combi-melta, powerfist

Troops
Chaos Marines - 243
(10) x9 CCW, x2 Meltaguns, Veterans of the Long War, Champion: power weapon, meltabombs; Rhino

Chaos Marines - 258
(10) x9 CCW, x2 Plasmaguns, VotLW, Champion: Power fist; Rhino

Cultists - 63
(10) x8 autoguns, stubber

Cultists - 63
(10) x8 autoguns, flamer

Heavy Support
Havocs - 178
(6) x2 lascannon, x2 missile launchers w/ flakk missiles

Vindicator -145
Siege shield, Daemonic Possession

Oblits - 152
(2) Mark of Nurgle
/1500

Same general idea except Lord & Friends DS into the enemy back lines and cause havoc (also for Linebreaker) while the heavy support pop tanks and be a problem for heavy infantry. CSM and cultist squads act as above. Lots of shooting in this list, but can fall prey to tank popping armies (DE, IG, Tau, etc.) fairly easily.


So what do you guys/gals/other/spawn think? Remember, this is 1500pts (the usual amount played at the store), so there will probably be 2 fliers tops unless someone brings the FW Elysian air cav army. One person actually has this too, but it's not too bad in reality, just kind of annoying and it's geared for 1750 IIRC, I'm actually more annoyed by Storm Talons/Ravens and 'Cron Scythes TBH.

[WarlordEXE]

its gona be hard enough to keep those havocs alive when enemy flier comes in. 2 missiles isnt very likely to down it, and with a second turn of firing from the enemy flier that havoc squad is probably toast. Maybe make all four of them missile launchers, or just forget the flak all together. Heavy stubber on cultists seems kinda useless so im guessing it was just leftover points? I'd just keep the cultists naked, and maybe reserve one or both for grabing your homefield objective late game. Also, based on your strategy, is murder sword really that necessary? Anything your gona run into that you might want it for is probably going to be sitting in a unit that'll eat your terminators. I'd go with the black mace, especially since popular back field objective grabbers are usualy low toughness and/or armor save.

[entendre_entendre]

snip

Fair points, but I figure some AA is better than none at all. As someone who has used a Vendetta in 6th quite a lot, I know you have to have something to take that flier down. You absolutely cannot rely on 6s to hit something, let alone kill it. If the enemy was running fliers, I'd position the havocs in a pattern that makes sure that the missiles are the last thing to die from a front/side attack so they'd (hopefully) die in the order of: regular joe, champ, x2 lascannons, missiles. The mix of weapons is because AV14 could be a problem, hence the mix.

Both cultists are to be reserved for late turn objective grabbing. I chose a stubber because that's what the model has, but perhaps a flamer would be more useful for deterring assaults, I'm sure I could scrounge one up. Autoguns are for them doing something in game rather than simply holding their nethers on an objective or doing nothing in a KP mission. Didn't have enough points to ally guard in (I'd need around 400 or so to include what I want), so I went with these guys.

Murder Sword was chosen for a few reasons: 1: my lord model has a daemonic looking sword, I'd feel cheesy for passing it off as a Mace, 2: generation of extra powers sword attacks for slaughtering fools is fun, 3: it's called the MURDER SWORD, how could you not take it? :P With the general proliferation of gun lines, many ICs are also hiding in the backlines trying to avoid giving up the Kill the Warlord objective. A Murder Sword might help dissuade them from such an action. Also, there are several players who run terminator HQs that I'd prefer to just insta-gib rather than whittle them down. I guess I could bump it down to a power sword and give him a sigil of corruption for a 4++? Or should I beef up the cultists instead? Both?