Question for Veterans of the Eye of Terror

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm A-okay with the excision. The Eye of Terror campaign was neat, but it went right for a grand event with UNIVERSE SHAKING RAMIFICATIONS and then they realized what the problems with that are. You can't advance time when you don't have a story to tell. 40k is a setting, it is not supposed to advance, you're supposed to move your focus.
The CSM suffer from most of their characters being stuck in one place. You're either in the 13th Black Crusade or King of the Pirates, no one's out there just Chaosing it up. So, you have a book where you're waiting for most of your SCs to get off from the shift that never ends.

Here's the thing: lots of other wargames progress their storylines. WarmaHordes advances their storyline with every single supplement, as does Infinity to a somewhat lesser degree. I don't think being a setting for a wargame makes it impossible to advance the story that setting tells. In fact, given that they've already shown themselves capable of creating a global event, it's kind of sad that GW has decided not to even try.

[inquisitorsog]

Here's the thing: lots of other wargames progress their storylines. WarmaHordes advances their storyline with every single supplement, as does Infinity to a somewhat lesser degree. I don't think being a setting for a wargame makes it impossible to advance the story that setting tells. In fact, given that they've already shown themselves capable of creating a global event, it's kind of sad that GW has decided not to even try.

Also lots of RPGs ,etc. However, it's often done as a cloak of major system changes. Example: Battletech. FASA intro'ed the clans as an excuse to change the technology so that things that annoyed many players could be addressed w/out invalidating prior history and allowing those players who did like playing with a heat budget to still play the way they wanted.

In 40k, we have so many things "just out of camera" that they have plenty to expand upon w/out needing to advance the timeline. There also may be more demand for filling in the history than moving forward as seen in the apparent success of all things Horus Heresy.

They also have two too many "save the universe" scenarios playing out. Will the nids eat the universe or will the necrons disintegrate it? You've got an eternity of war perfectly set up with the Imperium, Chaos, Orks, and Tau(with Eldar and Dark Eldar sitting comfortably in the spoiler role), but the necrons and nids threaten that balance. It will take some imagination to sustain their threats into the future so that players and collectors of both are not cut out while not making it look purely artificial.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

I wish it would tick over to the 42nd Millenium.

Been playing and interested in the game since 1999. Pretty scary given that I'm 24. I love everything in the setting, but I would love to see after the 13th. I mean, it's the same as the Storm of Chaos in Fantasy. Grimgor killed Archaon, screaming "Orcs is da best!" over a mound of fallen heroes, and all the fluff is still at the build up stage it was 2 editions ago.

I think the problem is that there are so many threats, and so many people with a vested interest in the direction of the narrative, that they can't keep a majority happy. So, stall it.

I'd like to see more Tyranids invasions. I want to see the Necrons unite. What's happening with the Orks on Armageddon? Is Eldrad ever going to manage a legendary escape from Slaanesh?

Hell, even if they tell me how long these End Times are, I'll be happy, regardless of how they actually go down. But no, it looks like it's gone the way of the 2nd Primarch.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

So we're stuck at the edge of the event horizon so-to-speak?

I get why its a permanent cliffhanger, but after having "fought" in the thing (badly) and seen how it ended...years ago...I just find it hard get my fluffwise-self all worked up about Abadabadoo. 'Name of the Game' aside, I would not mind a push into the next century.

I do appreciate others' opinions and the feedback though. I was honestly curious how others felt.

[magickbk]

They can advance the storyline without altering the setting. They have been doing this for years. The setting is the 41st millennium. The stuff in the game is from across that span of time, if you look at the dates in different books and the background.

For example, Blood Angels Captain Tycho has had profiles and story as a Company Captain, then as a Death Company Captain. Sergeant Naaman in the Dark Angels codex was listed as having been killed in combat in his background story.

It is possible for them to advance portions of the story without invalidating anything else. They can even advance story and kill off characters without having them no longer useable in the game. It would be feasible to even have a special character's successor in the same codex, and list that only one could be taken in a game, so that you could build different army lists from them.

[Wildeybeast]

They can advance the storyline without altering the setting. They have been doing this for years. The setting is the 41st millennium. The stuff in the game is from across that span of time, if you look at the dates in different books and the background.

For example, Blood Angels Captain Tycho has had profiles and story as a Company Captain, then as a Death Company Captain. Sergeant Naaman in the Dark Angels codex was listed as having been killed in combat in his background story.

It is possible for them to advance portions of the story without invalidating anything else. They can even advance story and kill off characters without having them no longer useable in the game. It would be feasible to even have a special character's successor in the same codex, and list that only one could be taken in a game, so that you could build different army lists from them.

They've done just this in Warhammer. Marius Leitdorf, one of the Empire SC's was killed off in a piece of army book fluff several editions ago, but he still crops up as a playable SC in the latest army book. He's just too much fun and too awesome to write out of the game. I think this is the way to go, minor changes to armies, writing in and out units and characters without sweeping changes to the overall background. They got rid of the global campaigns for the simple and sensible reasons that they often ended up in stalemate and GW realised they didn't like having their fluff entirely at the mercy of us. They were fun, but I don't lament them.

Also, has it really been that long since the Black Crusade campaign? That makes me feel old

[Poseidal]

Marius is mentioned as being killed in his army book description, but as an Averland player, I'm glad he's back in.

[Wildeybeast]

Exactly. When he first appeared way back when with rules he was alive, they offed him in a piece of fluff when he didn't have rules in the book, then they gave him new rules in this one but kept him as dead. They can advance individual stories and thus 'time' without moving on the whole the timeline. Admittedly it's easier in Warhammer because they don't have the whole 41k issue looming over it. They can change the year without it having any consequences.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Veteran of both Armageddon and the Black Crusade here!

The Armageddon campaign was the better idea. It was a huge campaign of great consequence (enough to get people excited and feel like they could really impact things), but it's also something that could add different results to the setting without having an apocalyptic effect on lore (killing off characters, shifting the entire setting). Black Crusade was too big. They're also not acknowledging the "result" of the campaign anymore, as far as I'm aware - the 13th Black Crusade as it stands is happening "right now", with everything still in the balance.

On that note: I wouldn't be too surprised (in fact, I hope this happens) if the Eldar book rolls around and Eldrad is listed as alive. Killing him off annoyed me, not least because his death was really lame.

I'd love to see another global campaign. I'd like to think that last year's Storm of Magic thing was testing some systems for another big one.

[magickbk]

Veteran of both Armageddon and the Black Crusade here!

The Armageddon campaign was the better idea. It was a huge campaign of great consequence (enough to get people excited and feel like they could really impact things), but it's also something that could add different results to the setting without having an apocalyptic effect on lore (killing off characters, shifting the entire setting). Black Crusade was too big. They're also not acknowledging the "result" of the campaign anymore, as far as I'm aware - the 13th Black Crusade as it stands is happening "right now", with everything still in the balance.

On that note: I wouldn't be too surprised (in fact, I hope this happens) if the Eldar book rolls around and Eldrad is listed as alive. Killing him off annoyed me, not least because his death was really lame.

I'd love to see another global campaign. I'd like to think that last year's Storm of Magic thing was testing some systems for another big one.

I also played in the Armageddon campaign, which was definitely run better than Eye of Terror. As a matter of fact, I was GW staff for both, and we had a huge amount of Armageddon support and special events in-store every few days, and Eye of Terror just sort of happened. We had very little to do with it in retail stores, other than a mega battle every other weekend.

The only thing that would make Eldrad's death not lame was if they include a Wraithseer in the Codex, and he is a special character Wraithseer...