Astropath effecting allied army reserve rolls

[Nabterayl]

Are we still talking about Reserve rolls or just whether there is a general principle that enemy models, can't benefit from special rules even when a special rule does not purport to limit itself to friendly models (as opposed to the general principle being that your opponent's models can't benefit from your special rules, if the special rule does not purport to limit itself to friendly models)?

If the former, I don't see how page 7 of the [url=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2590005a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1a.pdf]BRB FAQ[/url] is not dispositive. As already quoted:

Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment?
A: No.

That makes friendly vs. enemy, mine vs. yours moot as regards Reserve modifiers, doesn't it? Not even friendly allied models can take advantage of modifiers to "such things as Reserve rolls."

[Tynskel]

I don't think they 'missed' the Telepathic Relay.
If your units are 'friendly' they can coordinate in.
If your units are 'enemy', they cannot coordinate in.

[Turner]

Are we still talking about Reserve rolls or just whether there is a general principle that enemy models, can't benefit from special rules even when a special rule does not purport to limit itself to friendly models (as opposed to the general principle being that your opponent's models can't benefit from your special rules, if the special rule does not purport to limit itself to friendly models)?

If the former, I don't see how page 7 of the [url=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2590005a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1a.pdf]BRB FAQ[/url] is not dispositive. As already quoted:

Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment?
A: No.

That makes friendly vs. enemy, mine vs. yours moot as regards Reserve modifiers, doesn't it? Not even friendly allied models can take advantage of modifiers to "such things as Reserve rolls."

Oh no, I totally agree and that makes perfect sense. However falls directly on the line of Main Rule Book says "you can't" and a codex (specifically the Imperial Guard) saying "you can" and to the best of my knowledge "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and on printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." page 7, main rule book. So although they did answer that specific question in an FAQ

Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment?
A: No.

it still is in the main rule book... (Curse you GW, why do you do this to us?!)

[Turner]

I don't think they 'missed' the Telepathic Relay.
If your units are 'friendly' they can coordinate in.
If your units are 'enemy', they cannot coordinate in.

It still doesn't say that,
Imperial Guard Codex: Page 31 Telepathic Relay: Whist the Astropath is alive, you add 1 to any of your reserve rolls. In addition, if any of your units arrive using the outflank rule, you can re-roll the dice used to determine which board edge these squads arrives from.


It doesn't distinguish between primary detachment, battle brothers, allies of 'meh' or allies of 'I'll cut you' or really even allies. It does distinguish your stuff, mainly in reserve, but your stuffs none the less. Not your opponents, but your reserve rolls. (Primary, Allied what's the difference? still yours, still rolling for them.)

[Nabterayl]

Oh no, I totally agree and that makes perfect sense. However falls directly on the line of Main Rule Book says "you can't" and a codex (specifically the Imperial Guard) saying "you can" and to the best of my knowledge "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and on printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." page 7, main rule book.

GW, in my view, has tightened its view on what constitutes a "conflict." Hard to Hit is plainly intended to override a number of codex rules that, on the old view of what constitutes a conflict, would have presented a conflict. I find it instructive that they didn't amend powers such as Blood Lance to not be able to hit ZFASFMCs, but instead put a FAQ in the BRB to the effect that such powers are still subject to Hard to Hit. I don't know what the official line is at HQ, but to my mind, this suggests that in 6e a "conflict" must be pretty explicit to invoke page 7. The old way of invoking codex > BRB every time a codex rule's implications contradict the BRB doesn't seem to be current, in my view.

[Tynskel]

yeah. Exactly what I meant in the circumstance of 'telepathic relay'. 'Any reserves roll' is not in conflict the main rulebook, because the rule does not explicitly override the main rulebook. What I said earlier is that the 'any' part applies to the 'friendly' portion, not to enemy, because the rulebook explicitly states 'enemy' for almost all allies.

The FAQ goes further.

The real thing, maybe, to take home from this rules argument is that if there's doubt about one's codex rule apply to an ally, then it doesn't apply.

[Turner]

yeah. Exactly what I meant in the circumstance of 'telepathic relay'. yeah. Exactly what I meant in the circumstance of 'telepathic relay'. 'Any reserves roll' is not in conflict the main rulebook, because the rule does not explicitly override the main rulebook.

That makes sense, 100% sense. Re-examining 'telepathic relay' and the BRB, you both (Tynskel & Nabterayl) are correct there is no conflict between the main rule book and the codex so there's no 'overriding' of anything.

What I said earlier is that the 'any' part applies to the 'friendly' portion, not to enemy, because the rulebook explicitly states 'enemy' for almost all allies.

That, that right there is interrupting. Which may be correct or may not be, hopefully GW will FAQ this.

[Tynskel]

this isn't an explicit override.
ex:
Ork ramshackle. The ramshackle overrides the rulebook because it explicitly cites a specific rulebook rule X, and states to replace that rule with Y.

However, the telepathic relay does not change a rule specifically. You can still add +1 to all friendlies (ignoring the FAQ). You can accomplish this rule the way it is phrased.

[Turner]

this isn't an explicit override.
ex:
Ork ramshackle. The ramshackle overrides the rulebook because it explicitly cites a specific rulebook rule X, and states to replace that rule with Y.

Alright, yup 100% I misinterrupted the way the rule (telepathic relay) works with the main rule book. It is clear that there is no explicit override.

However, the telepathic relay does not change a rule specifically. You can still add +1 to all friendlies (ignoring the FAQ). You can accomplish this rule the way it is phrased.

Could you show me where you are reading this? I can't seem to find that and must be looking in the wrong area.

[Kyban]

In this case it all comes down to the FAQ, which overrides the codex (written for a previous edition). How can you argue against that?