Dark Angels Fallen

[Nabterayl]

Hey guys,

Something I've been wondering for a long time: what is the big deal about the Fallen? I haven't read the Heresy novels concerning the Dark Angels (hence why I'm asking this question), but from what I understand it sounds an awful lot like the Dark Angels are terrified that somebody might find out that, once upon a time, some Dark Angels fell to Chaos. Unlike, you know, EVERY OTHER LEGION EVER.

...

Are the Dark Angels really planning to spend an unforeseeable amount of time hunting an unknown number of traitors whose fate, not to mention whereabouts, are unknown, because they can't stand the thought that somebody might find out that such traitors existed once upon a time, and might still exist? Do the Dark Angels even have a reputation of not having any renegades on their rolls?

Or ... is there something else going on? I mean, I can accept (and love) space marines being insufferably self-absorbed pricks, I just want to leverage others' reading.

[Gotthammer]

That's prettymuch it, though there is a bunch of guilt and repentance thrown in there - they want to find them to bring them to justice to atone for their sins so the Emperor will forgive them (which may or may not be what Cypher is up to). Not all the fallen are evil chaos worshipers either, as they were cast through space and time, so some when found are repentant and recieve a quick death when they realise what they did by turning on their brothers.

I think though that rather than just the fall to chaos it's more that they fell during the heresy, and fell en masse. Whilst some of the traitor legions had guys who stayed good, none of the other loyalist legions had guys turn bad at that time (that we know of at the moment). The betrayal was also less about fighting against the Emperor and more fighting against the part of the legion who abandoned the fallen on Caliban.

[Nabterayl]

Do the Dark Angels have any lore about not having any subsequent renegades?

[inquisitormack]

The issue with the Fallen is that the "Loyalist" DAs might not actually be as loyal as the Imperium believes. To fully understand the issue though, reading the older fluff helps, especially Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe (see link below).

The Horus Heresy series has also helps by explaining that the Imperium's goals are very different now than they were during the Crusades. For example, worshipping the Emperor then was forbidden whereas now it is forbidden.

[URL="http://www.amazon.com/Angels-Darkness-Warhammer-40-000/dp/0743443497"]http://www.amazon.com/Angels-Darkness-Warhammer-40-000/dp/0743443497[/URL]

[Nabterayl]

I ... don't think I understand. It's not as if the Inner Circle seriously fears the Fallen approaching the Imperium and saying, "Little did you suspect that for the past ten thousand years the Dark Angels have secretly ..."

I don't even know how to finish that sentence. Secretly been working against the Imperium? The Dark Angels act like insufferable pricks, but no moreso than any other marine chapter. Put their own needs above that of the Imperium? Well of course; they're space marines. Secretly attacked Caliban, rather than the other way around? Why should anybody other than Dark Angels care about that?

EDIT: Let me take a step back and ask a broader question: do the Dark Angels care about their "secret" getting out? Or is the current lore that they view this as an internal matter?

[inquisitorsog]

Actually the DA do act more insufferably prickish than most other Marine chapters. Certainly more so than Sallyminders and Ultramorons. There's some more prickish out there, like Minotaurs and Black Templars, but DA are the worst of the first founding when it comes to relations with the Imperium at large.

The reasons the DA _currently_ care are because it's chapter tradition. Full stop. However, in M31 and M32, they cared precisely because they were the only loyalist legion (not chapter) to undergo a full split. That's the simplest view I think, although I accept that may become more fluffed at some point.

The symmetries between Dark Angels(First Legion) and Alpha Legion (Last Legion) are all over the place if you take some viewpoints. If the Lion was actually being disloyal during the Heresy by waiting to see who one whilst Alpha was actually being loyalist but playing double agent, then there's more to the symmetry than just first vs. last and general secretiveness.