Eldar Rumour Titbits

[spaceman91]

I think the WK is going to be like a landraider. People will ether focus on it in which case the rest of the army is messing you up or it gets ignored in which case it goes messing stuff up. Im all for it. Win win.

[Bitrider]

Not sure if this was already posted but from the WD battle report, looks as if Battle Focus is 'run then shoot'.

[Learn2Eel]

Had so much potential and its just a 240pt piece of garbage...even moving 12" a turn, it's garbage.

Played against Necron last night...

I went first and even with Imoteck he didn't sieze initiative (did you just see what happend there with a 4+) but it's Night fghting in turn one so he has his kewl effect rocking out the gate...anyway, the only unit I have within 36' of my buddy's C'tan Shard (yes yes, it's ONLY T7 and 4W, but 4++) is my Pathfinders (full ten for 240pts, can you say ironic? I knew you could.) I only hit with 5(gggrrr, BS4, come on!!!) but 3 were rending shots. Don't even wound with the other 2 shots. Rolls his 3 rending (ap 1, gimmie that black vehicle damage dice for light vehicles, YUMMY!!!) at 4++ and fails 2, too bad so sad. You can guess what happened turn 2 when Night Fighting ended.

Yes, the SuckKnight will move 12", it will have nasty weapons (Eldar with nasty weapons, shocking!!!!!), and it will have 6 wounds. T8 is not hard to crack, 90% of the weapons fired will be AP2 so welcome to the land of 5++ most of the time. Also, if you think 6W is awesome...in the above example you would have taken half those 6 wounds (other roll was a 4, failure for Suckknight!!) from only one unit of fire, and your Suckknight hasn't even moved. Be prepared to not even get to shoot, especially if you're not going first and no Night Fighting turn one. Beuller???

It saddens me that soon other armies will point and laugh at the Suckknight, but it does suck. So much potential, yet it falls flat.

On the flip side, Illic is sounding like a BEAST. A little bummed that it's a 6 insta kill instead of 4+ rending, but only a little. I just hope he's heavy 4. Being able to get a level 3 Farseer is going to RULE, and if Illic is really as awesome as he sounds it will be the first time I actually debate about an IC for an HQ choice instead of defaulting to two Farseers 90% of the time. Yes, Eldrad is awesome. I don't run an Ulthwe army, Swordwind forever!

On the internet much DarkLink? I can do that to...

I've posted a whoppng 6, now 7 times, and all in this thread. Used to lurk, but everyone being 'joy joy' about the Suckknight when it was total suck if the rumored stat line was correct drew me out. So no, but I'll take the time to smack you down a little, jerk.

Anywho, maybe if you take a few minutes to read those whopping 5 other posts you won't come off as a common internet douche.

Marzillius...

Do any of those even come close to the visiual impact alone that the Wraithknight has? Do any of those cost $115 each? Don't get me wrong, I'm stilll buying one. It will just sit on my Eldar cabinet never to be heard from in battle.

Anything Sniper is full of win in 6th, although I'm not a big fan of Deathmarks because it's a sniper rifle with 24' range? no, just no. Being able to pen light and glance medium armored vehicles now is awesome.

I'm 100% biased towards the Eldar, don't get me wrong. I've been playing since RT and the Eldar since 2nd. I WANT the Suckknight to be awesome, it SHOULD be awesome. Unfortuneately it sucks. If every tournament winner was polled about the Wraithknight asking if they would ever field it, 90% would immediately say no, the other 10% just got lucky.

Broken record time, sorry...

T8 3+/5++ with 6W is getting ground into chuck fast, especially if what people claim about this being the 'shootiest' edition of 40k is true. Minimum change required is T10 and make it immune to Fleshbane/Rending/Wraithcannons/Instant Death/etc. and I still hate 5++. Should be T10 2+/4++ immune to Fleshbane/Rending/Wraithcannons/Instant Death/etc. and make it 300pts, make it 350...you get my point.

In a perfect world (perceptions will vary) it would be a vehicle with this stat line...

WS/BS 3 S10 F/S armor 12 R armor 10 2+/4++ 6 Hull pts only 1d6 armor pen against it (no Melta/Armorbane/Ordance/etc. allowed) and immune to Haywire/Wraithcannons/etc. and it counts as 2 heavy support choices...make it 400+pts

Only BS 3...not 4, Even with only 1d6 armor pen armor 12 manageable and 10 easy(Sniper rifle!!! pew pew), counts as 2 heavy support(6 hull pts = 2 Falcons, less than 2 Land Raiders), costs a lot of points for a single powerful unit. People whine about 6 Hull Points saying it's Super Heavy and really structure points i.e. FW and Apoc at that....my original stat line had Structure points and modified it to hull pts for consumability and I point to the article BOLS featured regarding 6th moving towards Apoc. If the Suckknight model doesn't speak to that, regardless of stat line, I don't know what more could.

Please understand that I play in a 40k world of name your Land Raider variant, Contemptor's, Lucius pattern drop pods, Reapers, Tantalus, Lifta Droppa's, Mega and Kustom Meka Dreads, XV9's, TX42's, Spiritseers, Warp Hunters, etc. and on and on. I rarely play under 2k and the average is close to 3k (expanding to 8x4 table usually at 3k+). I also play Apoc, but that's a different discussion. As I mentioned before, perceptions will vary, heh heh

It's all good!

Go with your gut on this Grey Mage.

How about a NDK that's moving 12" also whacking it with a Daemon Hammer/Doomfist? Very Tasty! Even better, a squad of GK's in power armor with Daemon hammers.

And this is why people should wait for a codex to be released before they make uninformed statements about it....

[shabbadoo]

TBH I was secretly hoping Fire Dragons would become the all-heat-based-weapons aspect, i.e. flamers, plasma or fusion as you preferred. They could even have had a rule that limited all Dragons squads in one army to the same weapon, just keep it a bit strategic and represent the singular focus of that particular shrine.

We'll probably have to wait until the next codex for that, as well as for new models. Heck, Wraithguard have two shooty weapon options, and Wraithblades have two different choppy weapon options, so who knows what they will do in the future.

[Ghoulio]

One thing I noticed that I haven't seen anyone comment on is the fact that Vypers are BS 4 with no upgrades which based on literally every other book in the game would make standard guardians BS 4. Combine that with all the special rules and the points decrease they could end up being a really good unit (same for all their vehicles and jet bikes). BS 4 War Walkers, sign me up!

[biffster666]

And this is why people should wait for a codex to be released before they make uninformed statements about it....

You realize this is the internet, right?

Yes, T10 is too high, T9, 4++ with 6W. I'll still eat T8 4++ 6W too fast...T9 means all those ST 8 heavy weapons have to roll a 5 to wound....and then we're forced to take a crappy invulnerable. I would check out the Wraithknight then, not with T8 3+/5++, especially with no cover save unless I'm behind something BIG.

3+ means next to nothing when 80%+ of the time you're rolling the 5++. It makes the Riptide look small, but it doesn't have a 2+ . Missiles aren't even a real danger to Riptides wounding on a 2+, freaking deadly wounding on a 4+ to a Wraithknight taking a 5++... And 8/3 Krak missiles are so uncommon, amirite?

Insta win button??? Insta win is a myth created by people who most of the time have never faced a FW 40k unit but think they're 'insta win/broken', the ones that have are just weak. What weapon do you think your enemy would pull out of its arsenal first if you started to whine about insta win? 3 guesses and the first two don't count. Have you ever battled a marine army that has multiple Lucius pattern drop pods (before they were changed to separate fast attack choices) with Contemptors charging out of them? An Ork army with two Lifta Droppa's and a Mega and Kustom Meka dread? Tau army with XV9's and TX42's? Dark Eldar with a couple Reapers and a Tantulus? Eldar with Spiritseer, Hornets, and Warp Hunters? Some tough units, but none of them is 'insta win' or 'broken', although Dedicated Transport Lucius Pattern Drop Pods were so nasty.

Illic Darkspear > Wraithknight

Perceptions will vary, it's all good!!!

[DarkLink]

You realize this is the internet, right?

And that's an excuse?

Yes, T10 is too high, T9, 4++ with 6W. I'll still eat T8 4++ 6W too fast...T9 means all those ST 8 heavy weapons have to roll a 5 to wound....and then we're forced to take a crappy invulnerable. I would check out the Wraithknight then, not with T8 3+/5++, especially with no cover save unless I'm behind something BIG.

If we're going to make up random stats and point values and wishlist our hearts out, you might as well go T11. Just because.

3+ means next to nothing when 80%+ of the time you're rolling the 5++. It makes the Riptide look small, but it doesn't have a 2+ . Missiles aren't even a real danger to Riptides wounding on a 2+, freaking deadly wounding on a 4+ to a Wraithknight taking a 5++... And 8/3 Krak missiles are so uncommon, amirite?

Well, just for fun, let's do a little math. One BS4 missile hits on a 3+, wounds on a 4+, and there's a 5++ save. So one missile causes .222 wounds. So on average dice, it'll take 27 missile shots to kill a Wraithknight. The only army that can even approach that many missile launchers in an average game is Space Wolves, and congratulations, you just shot your entire army at one model. 240pts isn't that expensive for something that can draw that much fire.

T8, 6 wounds, and a 3+ save at 240pts is pretty tough, but not impossible to kill. That's something that game designers refer to as 'balanced'. And, of course, we haven't even seen the whole codex yet, so there is probably a lot more to the story than just this. For example, one of the new psychic powers grants Shrouded, right? Cast that on a Wraithknight and stick your toe in terrain, and suddenly you've got a 3+ cover save. Who, other than DE with their poisoned weapons, and Tau with their stupid markerlights, wants to deal with that?

Insta win button??? Insta win is a myth created by people who most of the time have never faced a FW 40k unit but think they're 'insta win/broken', the ones that have are just weak. What weapon do you think your enemy would pull out of its arsenal first if you started to whine about insta win? 3 guesses and the first two don't count. Have you ever battled a marine army that has multiple Lucius pattern drop pods (before they were changed to separate fast attack choices) with Contemptors charging out of them? An Ork army with two Lifta Droppa's and a Mega and Kustom Meka dread? Tau army with XV9's and TX42's? Dark Eldar with a couple Reapers and a Tantulus? Eldar with Spiritseer, Hornets, and Warp Hunters? Some tough units, but none of them is 'insta win' or 'broken', although Dedicated Transport Lucius Pattern Drop Pods were so nasty.

I... I don't know how to respond to this. What does Forgeworld have to do with anything? I'm pretty sure whatever you're smoking is probably bad for your health.

[AtmaTheWanderer]

3+ means next to nothing when 80%+ of the time you're rolling the 5++. It makes the Riptide look small, but it doesn't have a 2+ . Missiles aren't even a real danger to Riptides wounding on a 2+, freaking deadly wounding on a 4+ to a Wraithknight taking a 5++... And 8/3 Krak missiles are so uncommon, amirite?

It's a balancing act, man. Something is not going to get a 2+/5++ on top of T8 in a normal force org. That's just absurdly resilient. It already takes an average of like 28-30 BS4 krak missiles to kill the damn thing, which is a far cry from the "oh, it'll be dead before you get to do anything with it!" that you're proposing.

We also have not seen the psychic powers that can be used to back it up. If fortune works the same as it did previously, it suddenly just got a lot more survivable against those krak missiles.

Sorry to burst the bubble man, but it's simple economics. A $115 model is not going to suck. GW won't let it, they want every Eldar player or player who can take Eldar allies buying one, if not two. You are letting the fact you (as you state yourself) tend to play much higher point value games than the standard 1850-2k range taint your opinion of the model. Most typical armies are going to have to focus all of their heavy firepower available on this thing for about two full shooting phases to bring it down, and that is an absolutely crippling thing to have to do.

And FFS, in Apocalypse or a 3000 point game, anything your opponent wants dead in one round is going to die in one round.

[Learn2Eel]

Because Darklink and AtmaTheWanderer have already ripped apart your post, I will just add this little point; I've seen Riptides and Nemesis Dreadknights alike gunned down by small arms fire. And I don't mean one or two Tactical Squads rapid-firing, I mean hordes and hordes of lasguns that don't care that they are Strength 3 AP-. Factor into your equations that a Wraithknight cannot be hurt by anything that is Strength four or lower, and that krak-grenades need a six to wound it. Need I mention that six or more wounds on a Toughness eight monstrous creature with a decent armour and invulnerable save means that it will take several rounds of shooting from most armies to deal with the Wraithknight in one go? If you are up against armies that have Strength seven in abundance as opposed to Strength eight, the Wraithknight will be the one left with a grin (well, kind of) on its face.

[SeekingOne]

If I may add my 0.02 to the WK discussion...

From what we know so far, WK is, effectively, a beefed up Wraithlord. It is especially true in terms of durability, where WK has the same T and basic save with twice as many wounds.

Now, I didn't play with Wraithlords that much, but from what experience I have with them from my own games as well as from the games of my fellow Eldar players, I can tell that a Wraithlord felt ok in terms of general combat power, but kind of poor in terms of durability. But this feeling of poor durability has always originated primarily from the fact that a WL's "wounds" characteristic is too small. In other words, each individual wound is, generally, tough ehough to knock off (perhaps not too tough, but still ok) but a WL still goes down too fast because there's just 3 of them.

So, looking at WK, it's easy to tell that the Wounds issue seems to have been addressed generously enough. Granted, a WK is about twice as expensive as a WL, but it has both double durability AND (seemingly) close to double firepower - AND so, especially if it indeed also has a built-in jump pack, it's point cost is about balanced.

Thus, all things considered, WK still sounds like a decent unit to me - as far as the rumours go, of course.

And come on, as for me, when I play vs 'Nids for example, I always get a feeling that 6 wounds are pretty hard to remove even from a T6 creature Granted, Nids always have multiples of those, but then we're not limited to just one WK either.