1500 Tyranids

[Learn2Eel]

Here they are.
This is like a 'first draft' kind of army list. I'm very much looking towards changing it around until I can get it just right.
I like the mix so far, as I don't want to focus too heavily on certain specific elements i.e. Tervigons, Zoanthropes, etc.

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/ pair of boneswords, scything talons, toxin sacs, adrenal glands - 110

Elites
Zoanthropes (2) - 120
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines - 170
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines - 170
Termagants (10) - 50
Termagants (10) - 50
Hormagaunts (18) w/ toxin sacs - 144
Hormagaunts (18) w/ toxin sacs - 144

Heavy Support
Mawloc - 170
Mawloc - 170

Tyranids are the hardest army to write an army list for, at least for me anyway. I've always struggled with them.
E.g. I like Mawlocs over Trygons as they aren't just pure combat, are quite a bit cheaper and the deep strike attack makes them very good at breaking up defensive formations which would otherwise be hard to crack. But wait, the Trygon is so much better in combat and also has a shooting attack, with Fleet. Argh. Is Heavy Support even necessary?

Are two-strong broods too small for Hive Guard/Zoanthropes? Are Mycetic Spores necessary? I play on smaller tables so getting in range isn't an issue with Zoanthropes. For soaking up wounds I stick the Tyranid Prime in front. I entertained the idea of two winged Hive Tyrants, both with two twin-linked brainleech devourers, but I found I was spending way too many points on HQs for 1500 points. The Tyranid Prime at 110 points also monsters most characters that are 50+ or more points expensive than him. Even against an armoured-shell Hive Tyrant (provided they didn't roll Iron Arm or Warp Speed), the Prime strikes at the same time, averaging two hits and one wound (poison) which results in instant death - average roll of 3D6 is 11, meaning buh-bye non eternal-warrior characters! Seriously, Tyranid Primes are so cheap for what they do.

Are Warriors better in 6th, i.e. are they worth it? Do the Hormagaunts work in this list or not so much? Would it be better to have points invested elsewhere? Could add in Catalyst, more Zoanthropes/Hive Guard, etc with the points saved.

GAH! See what I mean!? Lol.
Thanks for any advice!

[Tynskel]

I am a fan of warriors. The prime buffs well, and I like death splitters.
The real trick is to screen them.

If I don't take warriors, I like to slip the prime with genestealers. Just split on charge, so the genestealers get their fleet.

One thing you could do is drop one tervigon. Use the points to max out psychic powers on the other tervigon.

Use the rest for a warrior squad.

I might exchange a Mawloc for a Carnifex with spines and adrenal glands and poison. Nothing beats 5 re-rolling to hit and wound str 10 attacks.

[Learn2Eel]

I never thought about Warriors in 5th because they were always "missile bait!". With the new wound allocation rules though, sticking the Tyranid Prime at the front and switching around the Warriors behind it means you can soak up any S8-S9 weapons on the Prime and then LoS the rest on a 2+ to different Warriors. It makes for a crazy durable unit. I just have to watch out for Vindicators and Manticores basically.

I could drop the Hormagaunts. Now that I think about it, they don't seem to fit too well with the rest of the army list. Dropping them would certainly make enough points to get some Warriors in and also to get the Tervigons more psychic powers. However, I would mostly just be happy to take Catalyst and be done with it, IMO being able to guarantee a Feel No Pain psychic power is more useful in general than two random rolls. Mind you, a Tervigon with some of the Biomancy powers (particularly Iron Arm) becomes absolutely unfair when holding an objective. I'll have to try it out.

Still not sold on Carnifexes unfortunately, but that configuration you posted is actually quite good. The best part is again, per the wound allocation rules, you can just swap around Carnifexes (if they are in a brood) to soak up damage. And the cover rules for monstrous creatures mean they can pretty easily soak up AP3-2 weapons.

Thanks for the advice!

HQ
Tyranid Prime w/ pair of boneswords, scything talons, toxin sacs, adrenal glands - 110

Elites
Zoanthropes (2) - 120
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines - 170
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines - 170
Termagants (10) - 50
Termagants (10) - 50
Warriors (3) w/ deathspitters - 105

Heavy Support
Mawloc - 170
Mawloc - 170
Carnifex w/ frag spines, adrenal glands, toxin sacs - 185

Comes up to exactly 1500. Do you think it is a better investment than 36 Hormagaunts w/ toxin sacs? Not so sure really. However, in my meta monstrous creatures tend to fair better than hordes, so.....
Also, this army list does look more like a proper 'Nids list, i.e. lots of variety. Got Mawlocs for disruption, a Carnifex as a battering ram, Tervigons as support and brood mothers, Termagants as the horde element, Warriors as the little elite element, Hive Guard as the light vehicle busters, Zoanthropes as the heavy vehicle busters, and the Prime as the cheap but awesome commander.
Only thing lacking is a Hive Tyrant, but eh. I'd rather not go full Nidzilla lol.

With the attached Prime, the Warriors average 6 hits and 4 wounds on standard Space Marines for one failed save. I dunno, just doesn't seem all that great to me. Mind you though, I am in a marine-heavy meta, xenos armies are incredibly rare where I play. Also, I like the Prime being used to soak up any instant-death wounds the Zoanthropes may have to take. Not sure.


The way I actually view the army list is like this; essentially the top half is perfectly fine. The Tyranid Prime is fine, although Adrenal Glands aren't really necessary, the Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are fine (I play on 4x4 tables so range isn't an issue for the Zoeys), the Termagants are fine, the Tervigons may need an extra psychic power or two each, etc. It's just that last bunch of points that I am still kind of divided on. I worked it out; the Hormagaunt broods and the Mawlocs account for 628 points of the army list. I'm just not sure where else to put the points that would work.

Are Raveners any good? Just looking at their profile and they seem to be quite good for their cost. A bare-bones 3-strong brood that falls out of IB range will most likely fail the leadership test, leading to 18 attacks on the charge at WS5, S4, I5. Woah. That's 12 hits and 6 wounds on average against Space Marines, leading to 2 dead. And when they hit back, they won't really be able to do too much either as each Ravener has 3 wounds! And on each subsequent turn the Raveners average a dead Space Marine. Pretty good for a 90 point unit. Oh, forgot to mention the Raveners had two sets of scything talons, so it is more like 16 hits on the charge and 10 in subsequent turns, i.e. 3 dead Space Marines and then 2 dead Space Marines, all before they strike. Bloody hell. Being Beasts means they have Fleet, they have Move Through Cover, move 12", etc.
I've always really liked Raveners.

[Learn2Eel]

Had a look online and the recommendation is to give them rending claws or shooting attacks. In my meta, the shooting attacks aren't too useful but the fact that I can quite easily charge decent sized units and wipe them out is a great asset. I love me some flanking units, and a dual assault of Mawlocs and Raveners would be pretty scary for my regular opponents. I'm thinking 5 in a brood with rending claws, that is 175 points and I can really abuse cover where I am to get forward quickly and soak up enemy fire.

On the charge with rage, that's an average of 30 attacks hitting on 3s with re-rolls of 1s against Space Marines, meaning like 21-22 hits. Then, about 11 wounds, three of which are rending. 7-8 armour saves, resulting in at least two more dead Marines. 5 dead marines on the charge or thereabouts is pretty nifty, especially as only five will then get to strike back (in a 10-man Tactical Squad), resulting in two-three hits for one-two wounds and one-two failed armour saves. Given the speed of the Raveners and rending, they are a serious threat to vehicles and heavy weapon teams, devastators and the like. Against vehicles with AV10 rear, I should be looking at three rends on average, meaning I can also destroy AV11 rear with ease too.

Hmm how does 20 Gargoyles, 5 Raveners with rending claws and the loss of adrenal glands on the Tyranid Prime sound compared to have 36 Hormagaunts with toxin sacs? The Hormagaunts are more bodies and better on average in assault, but the Raveners and Gargoyles are only 11 less bodies and 1 less wound, whilst being much quicker with a bigger threat range. I am leaning towards the latter as the the Hormagaunts are too easy a target, yet the speed of the Raveners and Gargoyles means I can really hide them or use them as screening units to give each other cover and support the Mawlocs. Although, I am of course not discounting how quick Hormagaunts are as well. Just not sure which would work better in this army list.

[Learn2Eel]

Have another army list I cooked up, does this look better than my previous ones?

Tyranids 1500
HQ
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines, catalyst - 185

Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Zoanthropes (2) - 120

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines, catalyst - 185
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines, catalyst - 185
Termagants (20) - 100
Termagants (20) - 100

Heavy Support
Trygon w/ toxin sacs - 210
Trygon w/ toxin sacs - 210

Total: 1495

In my opinion, two Trygons will do much more for my army in terms of target saturation than two Mawlocs. As well, the two Trygons are far better at dealing with heavier targets than the Mawlocs, particularly Terminators and other monstrous creatures. Plus, I like the Trygon model more than the Mawloc model, so that works out! After thinking about it, the damage the Mawlocs do generally isn't worth it, but I do lose quite a bit of disruption value. However, the great thing about the Trygons is they are pretty adaptable to the deployment type; I can deep strike them if I really need to or keep them as my two flanking units to draw fire. Plus, with the new cover rules, it is very easy for them to get a good cover save against nasty shooting!

Having the points to give the Tervigon's Catalyst is beautiful. Mostly I would prefer to keep Catalyst rather than switch my powers out, but taking the risk does pay off sometimes. Also, having thought about it, the Tyranid Prime was basically there just to be a cheap HQ. Having thought it through, a third Tervigon is not only much better for my army, being far more survivable, but it provides much better buffs - and more spawning goodness. Having a third Tervigon IMO increases the strength of the list far more.

Doubling up on the starting Termagants, as well as the other benefits, outweighs the loss of the Hormagaunts methinks. IMO the Hormagaunts just didn't gel with the rest of the army list, and having 20-strong starting broods means the Termagants are far more survivable and much better as tarpit units. It makes the list less reliable on spawning, at least in the early stages, and means I shouldn't concede easy kill points that quickly. I could realistically take four broods of 10 but that would just be overkill. I guess I can do that if I know it is an objectives game.

Overall I think this list is better than the others I've come up with, and best of all, it includes more of the models I genuinely like.
Again, still not trying to go for majorly-competitive or anything, but I want to have a solid army list core to build upon when I start collecting - I also want an army list that will do decently against most opponents I come up against.

I can tell already that this will be a good army in most objective games, as any Tervigon-heavy army-list usually will be, but it will also probably struggle a bit in kill point games. Thankfully, kill point missions aren't as common nowadays. There are a lot of very nasty targets, and given the small boards I play on, I am looking at a very likely second-turn charge with the Trygons. Four Hive Guard and two Zoanthropes should be sufficient for most non-flier armour I come across, with the Trygons and Tervigons as additional line-breakers if necessary. The Termagants screen and capture objectives, with spawned units working in coherency with the Tervigons.

The plan would generally be for the HQ, and thus Warlord Tervigon to stick in the back-field so that she is protected and spawn Termagants for my back-field objective holders. The Trygons advance on either flank, whilst the two scoring Tervigons move up the middle screened by the masses of Termagants. The Zoanthropes move up into good positions to lay down the punishment, whilst the Hive Guard find a good piece of line-of-sight blocking cover ASAP and bring the pain.

I am ultimately presenting a wealth of targets to my opponent, something I feel is very important with Tyranids - the Warlord Tervigon is a big target, especially in objective games where it can often come down to secondary objectives, however, she is well protected by her own broods and the rest of the advancing army. The other two Tervigons are obviously big threats as well, providing massive buffs for and spawning even more Termagants - all of them having poison means I don't need to rely on shooting or my own monstrous creatures to deal with tough enemies in combat. With Catalyst, I can make the Termagants or the other monstrous creatures very hard to kill, and being scoring makes them a huge target too. However, no-one wants two Trygons getting into their lines - having one on each flank is sure to draw insane amounts of firepower, even though the Tervigons are very much central to victory in 5/6 of the mission types. This makes it even better for the very dangerous Zoanthropes and Hive Guard to do what they do best - provide cheap and effective fire support to neutralize key targets, mostly transports and heavy vehicles.

This all sounds good in theory, but the killer is in the work itself - how it will actually function is obviously an unknown. But I like this army list, and think it will do well in general. What do you guys think?

Thanks for any and all input!

[Tynskel]

3 tervigons is the point where you have bodies, but cannot dish out pain. You may want to scrounge up points for a flying monsterous creature

[Learn2Eel]

I dunno, I think I dish out more pain than in the previous army lists when you consider the actual likelihood of units getting to do damage and not just based on potential damage, but that is up for debate. I never really expected the Tyranid Prime to get into combat anyway, so in that sense I think the extra Tervigon is well worth the price of admission. However, your point is very much valid. It mostly depends on the third one being the HQ choice, but IMO I think the third Tervigon is just the perfect HQ for the army list.

I've used flying monstrous creatures and I find that unless they are in pairs, they die like hot-cakes spread with butter. And unfortunately, Hive Tyrants with wings are just too expensive at 1500 points to take pairs. Whilst I know people definitely have success even with one, IMO even in my meta they are just too easily killed when taken alone. The problem also is getting units to work with them, and that would also require me to shell out more points for Gargoyles or Shrikes. I don't particularly like either unit (former - aesthetics/latter - cost) unfortunately. Of course though, if I come up against a flyer or flyer-heavy list, I will be in a spot of bother. However, the way I see it anyway is that flyers will outshoot any of my flying monstrous creatures and do it for much cheaper generally. And against AV12 flyers, a Hive Tyrant with dual brain-leech devourers still stands little chance of destroying it before it is killed in return.

Thanks for the input!

Also came up with a fun idea for an alternate army list, revolving around the Swarmlord;

Tyranids 1500
HQ
The Swarmlord w/ two tyrant guard - 400


Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Zoanthropes (2) - 120

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines, catalyst - 185
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, cluster spines, catalyst - 185
Termagants (20) - 100
Termagants (20) - 100

Heavy Support
Trygon w/ toxin sacs - 210

1500

So to gain the Swarmlord and the two Tyrant Guard I lose a Tervigon, I lose 20 Termagants, and I lose a Trygon. Effectively, I lose one combat monster unit for one that is even more deadly and survivable as well as actually providing buffs for my army and losing a Tervigon. This would be the more fun list of the two, as I would like to use the Swarmlord at some point, even if using him in 1500 point games doesn't work too well. The Swarmlord is just such an awesome model that my first Hive Tyrant kit would probably result in his creation.

With the Tyrant Guard, are lash-whips better or boneswords? Or should I just keep them basic to have 100 points to spend elsewhere? Considering they already have Rending and are S5, I don't think the Boneswords are as necessary as they would be on, for example, a Tyranid Prime. Having the Lash Whips doesn't really help against most targets I would fight against in regards to the I6 killer in the Swarm-star, but it helps against high initiative units such as Grey Knights with halberds or even to reduce the amount of wounds my Tyrant Guard might take in return. However, the Boneswords would of course make them exceedingly nasty in combat as well, meaning they can mulch through Terminators and Tactical Marines alike. I would just have to find the points somewhere to get them.

Ninja'd. 400 points is excessive enough in one unit, even if that unit is guaranteed to get into combat on turn 2-3 in my meta without dying and proceeding to kill everything it touches. 500 points is just far too much. With the spare 100 points, I am looking at either two extra Hive Guard or the extra 20 Termagants as before. I'm thinking, as before, four Hive Guard and two Zoanthropes should be enough in general, and the extra 20 Termagants would be better in general to either bulk up the starting squads or to have four units of them on the field before spawning starts.

[Learn2Eel]

Hmm actually thinking of a few changes to the list.
Just a thought; what do you guys think of the following two options;

a) Adrenal Glands on the Tervigons, or
b) Toxin Sacs on the Trygons

Methinks adrenal glands would be much more useful for the Tervigons as it grants the Termagants Furious Charge, allowing them to glance transports to death and also to get re-rolls to wound against T4 on the charge.
The Toxin Sacs basically just maximize the already significant killing power of the Trygons, I actually think they aren't necessary.

Just an FYI, I understand I'm probably missing the point with Tyranids haha I'm basically just going off what I like model and rules wise, not what I think is best.

I also came up with this, following on from Tynskel's suggestion;

HQ
Hive Tyrant w/ wings, two brainleech devourers - 260 (if Zoanthropes are taken, this guy also gets toxin sacs)

Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100
The Doom of Malan'tai w/ mycetic spore - 130
OR
Zoanthropes (2) - 120

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Termagants (10) - 50
Termagants (10) - 50

Heavy Support
Trygon w/ toxin sacs - 210
Trygon w/ toxin sacs - 210

And to edit the triple Tervigon list to add in Adrenal Glands;

HQ
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195

Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Zoanthropes (2) - 120

Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Termagants (19) - 95
Termagants (20) - 100

Heavy Support
Trygon - 200
Trygon - 200

Also made an alternative Swarmlord list;

HQ
The Swarmlord w/ two tyrant guard w/ lash whips - 410

Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100


Troops
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, adrenal glands, cluster spines, catalyst - 195
Termagants (10) - 50
Termagants (10) - 50

Heavy Support
Trygon - 200
Trygon - 200

[Anakzar]

Bone swords are indeed worth it for the tyrant guard if going againts a lot of 3+ and2+ armor.

The tyranid prime can do very well in CC. I like to run one with lashwhip/bone sword and death spitter in a brood of warriors for the extra BS/WS or sometimes in a big brood of termagants with devourers. People here like to shoot my synapse first and if I can make a synapse creature more survivable all the better.

The Swarmlord gets 4 powers and can use two per turn, rolling on biomancy 4 times almost garantees Iron arm and Warpspeed...

[Anggul]

While Cluster Spines seem more appealing at first, many have slowly decided that they're probably a bit better off with Stinger Salvo. Due to the nature of Tyranids and the fairly short range of the Spines, there's often too much of a risk of hitting your own models. Also, Stinger Salvo can snap-shot, so you can fire it on Overwatch/at Flyers (if you have nothing better to fire them at), two things which the Cluster Spines miss out on.

An amusing little trick is to only take one Tyrant Guard with the Swarmlord. This way when you cast Iron Arm, the unit's majority Toughness is 7-9, rather than 6. It's much better for the points to have one T7-9 Tyrant Guard rather than 2 T6 ones which also reduce the Swarmlord to T6.

I would generally take Zoanthropes in a brood of 3 if you're using their codex powers. If you're rolling on the rulebook disciplines instead then 2 is fine, but you probably want 3 to reliable down vehicles with Warp Lance if that's what you're taking them for.