1500 Tyranids

[Tynskel]

As much as I find the most recent lists entertaining, I get this feeling that the lists are missing something. I think it has to do with the Trygons. They can run off and do their thing, but by themselves. It might be worth while to get a Gargoyle/Shrike/Ravener brood for support with the Trygons.

The big thing about bugs is that you want to keep moving, and you want to hit like a ton of bricks. Synergy is your advantage. Then a trygon with a bunch of gargoyles slams into something, your opponents cry–especially if the swarmlord grants preferred enemy, or you get catalyst from a tervigon. Hammer of Wrath, even at str 3, is great for reducing your opponent's numbers, and the blinding venom is fantastic. That's 3 attacks each + a gun. Both units also get to re-roll charges.

[Ghoulio]

Kind of sad to see your list just turn into every single Tyranid list you see. Nothing but Trygons, min sized Termagant squads to get Tervigons, Hive Guards and a Tyrant of some sort. I in no way mean this as a slight against you, it's just more a comment on the book itself. The main down side of this list is EVERYONE knows what you are bringing and how to handle you before you even put your models down on the table. You should try varying things up a bit instead of just focusing on 5 of the 32 units in the book.

Why not go for some Ymgarls? They are still one of the best units in the book and one of only two units that can still assault out of reserves. Another great thing about them is their altered state happens at the START of the assault phase, so you can take the T5 to help mitigate some overwatch wounds. Another unit to try is a unit of 3 Zoans in a pod with the telepathy powers which turns them into a great devastator squad destoryer if you take the Primaris Power. Now you have 3 shots, each one forcing a LD test on 3d6 with no armor or cover saves. Combine that with Doom (who you trade that power out for as well) and now you force FIVE ld test on 3d6 lol. Harpies are also decent as they can fly over a unit, drop d3 spore mines, vector strike another unit then shoot a 3 unit.

All I am saying is there is a lot more to the book other then Tervigons, Hive Guard, Termagants and Trygons and just because they are the most cost efficient units in the book doesn't mean taking ONLY them wins games. Throwing your opponent off with some other units that get in their face messes with Target Priority and puts you back into control on how the game is being dictated. Just some things to consider

[Tynskel]

Yes. I completely agree with this.

Tyranids have always worked well when you take a variety of units. One just has to think about how they work together.
Here's one of my favorite combinations:

Defiler Tyrant
–Lash Whips and Bonesword, Devourers, Thorax Shredder Beetles, Old Adversary, Hive Commander, Toxin and Adrenal Sacs. Psychic Powers: Leech Essence and Psychic Scream.
Tyrant Guard
–3 with Lash Whips
Sky Slasher Swarms
–X bases, Adrenal and Toxin Sacs

The swarms act as a screen for the Tyrant, and they charge targets together. Everyone benefits from re-rolls due to preferred enemy (old adversary). Both of these units are under used in this fashion, but they can dish out some serious pain, especially since people are starting to use their boxes–err–transports less.

If you don't exchange your powers, Psychic Scream is a power that is under used and packs a serious punch: all enemy units within 2D6" take a Ld test at 3D6 and take a number of wounds with no save equal to the amount they lost by in the test. I have seen many powerful units get murdered by this power. Especially combined with the Brainleech Devourers and Rending Template weapon.


If you are looking to shave points, you can do away with the upgrade sacs. Preferred Enemy allows re-rolls of 1's on both to hit and wound for both close combat and shooting (makes the Rending Shredders even better).

[Learn2Eel]

Bone swords are indeed worth it for the tyrant guard if going againts a lot of 3+ and2+ armor.

The tyranid prime can do very well in CC. I like to run one with lashwhip/bone sword and death spitter in a brood of warriors for the extra BS/WS or sometimes in a big brood of termagants with devourers. People here like to shoot my synapse first and if I can make a synapse creature more survivable all the better.

The Swarmlord gets 4 powers and can use two per turn, rolling on biomancy 4 times almost garantees Iron arm and Warpspeed...

Hmm I do tend to agree, the only reason I didn't put them on the Tyrant Guard was because I didn't want to shave points off elsewhere. But there is no doubt that it turns each one into a very nasty MEQ or TEQ hunter. 4 attacks each on the charge at WS5 and S5, re-rolling failed to hit-rolls of 1 and paired with Preferred Enemy re-rolling failed to-wound rolls of 1 ignoring armour is very nasty. That's something like 6 hits and 5 wounds on average ignoring armour, enough to nearly wipe out a standard Terminator squad, and that is before factoring in the Swarmlord! Nasty.

While Cluster Spines seem more appealing at first, many have slowly decided that they're probably a bit better off with Stinger Salvo. Due to the nature of Tyranids and the fairly short range of the Spines, there's often too much of a risk of hitting your own models. Also, Stinger Salvo can snap-shot, so you can fire it on Overwatch/at Flyers (if you have nothing better to fire them at), two things which the Cluster Spines miss out on.

An amusing little trick is to only take one Tyrant Guard with the Swarmlord. This way when you cast Iron Arm, the unit's majority Toughness is 7-9, rather than 6. It's much better for the points to have one T7-9 Tyrant Guard rather than 2 T6 ones which also reduce the Swarmlord to T6.

I would generally take Zoanthropes in a brood of 3 if you're using their codex powers. If you're rolling on the rulebook disciplines instead then 2 is fine, but you probably want 3 to reliable down vehicles with Warp Lance if that's what you're taking them for.

The range depends on what is front of the Tervigon and what it is shooting at, whilst the risk is certainly there it mostly depends on the placement of units. Even then, I wouldn't really factor in shooting it all too much - especially with Catalyst being a witchfire power. In reality, I just don't buy into a 4 shot S5 AP4 weapon that hits on 4s. The large blast can scatter but it will more than likely get more hits and kills against lightly armoured units, and will do better against MEQs anyway. In reality, I don't find Overwatch that big a reason to take it considering it is only S5 and Assault 4 - you have slim-to-none chances of damaging any flyer really, let alone vehicles.

That is a very good idea, I think I will actually do that come to think of it. The only time it would be worse would be against Dark Eldar, but really, I rarely see them nowadays. The problem is that if I don't get Iron Arm (as unlikely as it is) then I've essentially left myself two wounds short.

I find that two tend to do the job, but a third certainly couldn't hurt.

As much as I find the most recent lists entertaining, I get this feeling that the lists are missing something. I think it has to do with the Trygons. They can run off and do their thing, but by themselves. It might be worth while to get a Gargoyle/Shrike/Ravener brood for support with the Trygons.

The big thing about bugs is that you want to keep moving, and you want to hit like a ton of bricks. Synergy is your advantage. Then a trygon with a bunch of gargoyles slams into something, your opponents cry–especially if the swarmlord grants preferred enemy, or you get catalyst from a tervigon. Hammer of Wrath, even at str 3, is great for reducing your opponent's numbers, and the blinding venom is fantastic. That's 3 attacks each + a gun. Both units also get to re-roll charges.

The problem is finding the points for those other units usually, though I could certainly shave off stuff here and there to fit them in. Gargoyles or Raveners would keep the visual theme consistent with other elements of the army. That and both, particularly the former, are pretty useful.

Kind of sad to see your list just turn into every single Tyranid list you see. Nothing but Trygons, min sized Termagant squads to get Tervigons, Hive Guards and a Tyrant of some sort. I in no way mean this as a slight against you, it's just more a comment on the book itself. The main down side of this list is EVERYONE knows what you are bringing and how to handle you before you even put your models down on the table. You should try varying things up a bit instead of just focusing on 5 of the 32 units in the book.

Why not go for some Ymgarls? They are still one of the best units in the book and one of only two units that can still assault out of reserves. Another great thing about them is their altered state happens at the START of the assault phase, so you can take the T5 to help mitigate some overwatch wounds. Another unit to try is a unit of 3 Zoans in a pod with the telepathy powers which turns them into a great devastator squad destoryer if you take the Primaris Power. Now you have 3 shots, each one forcing a LD test on 3d6 with no armor or cover saves. Combine that with Doom (who you trade that power out for as well) and now you force FIVE ld test on 3d6 lol. Harpies are also decent as they can fly over a unit, drop d3 spore mines, vector strike another unit then shoot a 3 unit.

All I am saying is there is a lot more to the book other then Tervigons, Hive Guard, Termagants and Trygons and just because they are the most cost efficient units in the book doesn't mean taking ONLY them wins games. Throwing your opponent off with some other units that get in their face messes with Target Priority and puts you back into control on how the game is being dictated. Just some things to consider

No offense taken good sir! Basically I'm looking at getting a semi-competitive core for an army so that I can quickly get into the army without losing out too much at first, then going from there and expanding on all the different options the codex presents. For example, I do like the look of Venomthropes and Ymgarls, but I always tend to find I need the anti-tank firepower of the Hive Guard and Zoanthropes more. However, not every army I play requires the touch of Zoanthropes. Being perfectly honest, very few play Tyranids in my local area (which is sad). I watch lots of games of them and read many battle reports, but I rarely get to face them. In that sense, also basing off what my opponents play, the army I have above actually would be a surprise for my opponents at first - none of them really play against Tyranids . Of course, as they work out and react to my army, that is when I start adapting them and moving on to other elements.

I really like Ymgarls, they are a very serious threat for any opponent, that and being able to charge when they arrive from reserves is very nasty. However, they aren't an easy unit to use - picking which piece of terrain alone can be a difficult decision, as you have to weigh up the risks of whether your opponent will inhabit it, whether it is worth charging from there, etc. I just find that Hive Guard and Zoanthropes would be the more useful and reliable unit for the army I'm going for, but I certainly wouldn't mind chucking in a unit of them. It would require a bit of a list re-design though as Ymgarls work better in an army with more reserves. My problem with that Zoanthrope build is that they are really paying for the one thing and losing their ability to threaten vehicles - an expensive unit, though mind you I'm talking from where I play, where small game-boards are the norm and hence mycetic spores are unnecessary. That's mostly my issue though - if I'm taking Zoanthropes, it is for their utility but also mostly for their Warp Lance.

I really like Harpies, the two issues that deter me from using them are; a) the model (or lack thereof), and; b) what to equip them with. I don't see Harpies as a flier defence, as S5 on the Stinger Salvo and Vector Strike simply wouldn't do as much as I would hope against most fliers. They can take a heavy venom cannon which gives you a tasty S9 blast, but the rest of their gear kind of seems to defeat the purpose of hunting vehicles (except for Smash obviously). My favoured build would be a focus on anti-infantry - as you say, they can dish out the pain. They are also a very big threat for any opponent, particularly backfield units such as Devastators or Predators. They can, in a pinch, charge into smaller units and rip them apart or at least draw fire away from the rest of your army. However, the anti-tank build seems to be popular so I am not really sure there.

Oh I know that for sure, the problem is whenever I try to include other elements I always struggle with how to properly implement them - i.e. the Raveners, Harpies, Gargoyles and what not. The help from you guys is thus very much appreciated

Yes. I completely agree with this.

Tyranids have always worked well when you take a variety of units. One just has to think about how they work together.
Here's one of my favorite combinations:

Defiler Tyrant
–Lash Whips and Bonesword, Devourers, Thorax Shredder Beetles, Old Adversary, Hive Commander, Toxin and Adrenal Sacs. Psychic Powers: Leech Essence and Psychic Scream.
Tyrant Guard
–3 with Lash Whips
Sky Slasher Swarms
–X bases, Adrenal and Toxin Sacs

The swarms act as a screen for the Tyrant, and they charge targets together. Everyone benefits from re-rolls due to preferred enemy (old adversary). Both of these units are under used in this fashion, but they can dish out some serious pain, especially since people are starting to use their boxes–err–transports less.

If you don't exchange your powers, Psychic Scream is a power that is under used and packs a serious punch: all enemy units within 2D6" take a Ld test at 3D6 and take a number of wounds with no save equal to the amount they lost by in the test. I have seen many powerful units get murdered by this power. Especially combined with the Brainleech Devourers and Rending Template weapon.


If you are looking to shave points, you can do away with the upgrade sacs. Preferred Enemy allows re-rolls of 1's on both to hit and wound for both close combat and shooting (makes the Rending Shredders even better).

That looks nasty, but I feel the Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard would be soaking up a lot of points. Also, as much as they may fit into a build, no-one can ever convince me to take Rippers or Sky-Slashers lol.
Just a clarification, Psychic Scream for Hive Tyrants does not force a Leadership test on 3D6 - it is just a normal leadership test. Hence why it usually won't do much against high-leadership armies.

That is true. I've never actually looked at using a Thorax Swarm before, however looking at them again they do look interesting. However, whilst the Rending one is nice, you are still relying too much on 6s - you wound MEQs on 5s as it is. IMO the one that sticks out to me is the one that wounds non-vehicle units on a 2+ - it might be AP- but it will force ungodly amounts of saves of units, especially when combined with Preferred Enemy. In an MEQ-dominated environment, that one would be more useful for me. It would also be lolsy against horde armies haha. However, there's no denying the value of the rending one - it can actually be a threat against vehicles.

Thanks all for your input!

[Learn2Eel]

This took me a minute or two to write up after looking at the codex, and obviously it looks quite a different army list. This is basically my first attempt at using this kind of army for Tyranids, so go crazy with what I should and shouldn't change.

Tyranids 1500
HQ
Tervigon w/ cluster spines, toxin sacs, catalyst - 185

Elites
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Hive Guard (2) - 100
Ymgarl Genestealers (8) - 184

Troops
Tervigon w/ cluster spines, toxin sacs, catalyst - 185
Tervigon w/ cluster spines, toxin sacs, catalyst - 185
Termagants (10) - 50
Termagants (10) - 50

Fast Attack
Harpy w/ cluster spines - 160
Harpy w/ cluster spines - 160
Gargoyles (20) w/ toxin sacs - 140

The HQ Tervigon is only there because I had 186 points left after putting everything else down and realized I couldn't fit a Hive Tyrant in.

[Ghoulio]

No offense taken good sir! Basically I'm looking at getting a semi-competitive core for an army so that I can quickly get into the army without losing out too much at first, then going from there and expanding on all the different options the codex presents. For example, I do like the look of Venomthropes and Ymgarls, but I always tend to find I need the anti-tank firepower of the Hive Guard and Zoanthropes more. However, not every army I play requires the touch of Zoanthropes. Being perfectly honest, very few play Tyranids in my local area (which is sad). I watch lots of games of them and read many battle reports, but I rarely get to face them. In that sense, also basing off what my opponents play, the army I have above actually would be a surprise for my opponents at first - none of them really play against Tyranids . Of course, as they work out and react to my army, that is when I start adapting them and moving on to other elements.

I really like Ymgarls, they are a very serious threat for any opponent, that and being able to charge when they arrive from reserves is very nasty. However, they aren't an easy unit to use - picking which piece of terrain alone can be a difficult decision, as you have to weigh up the risks of whether your opponent will inhabit it, whether it is worth charging from there, etc. I just find that Hive Guard and Zoanthropes would be the more useful and reliable unit for the army I'm going for, but I certainly wouldn't mind chucking in a unit of them. It would require a bit of a list re-design though as Ymgarls work better in an army with more reserves. My problem with that Zoanthrope build is that they are really paying for the one thing and losing their ability to threaten vehicles - an expensive unit, though mind you I'm talking from where I play, where small game-boards are the norm and hence mycetic spores are unnecessary. That's mostly my issue though - if I'm taking Zoanthropes, it is for their utility but also mostly for their Warp Lance.

I really like Harpies, the two issues that deter me from using them are; a) the model (or lack thereof), and; b) what to equip them with. I don't see Harpies as a flier defence, as S5 on the Stinger Salvo and Vector Strike simply wouldn't do as much as I would hope against most fliers. They can take a heavy venom cannon which gives you a tasty S9 blast, but the rest of their gear kind of seems to defeat the purpose of hunting vehicles (except for Smash obviously). My favoured build would be a focus on anti-infantry - as you say, they can dish out the pain. They are also a very big threat for any opponent, particularly backfield units such as Devastators or Predators. They can, in a pinch, charge into smaller units and rip them apart or at least draw fire away from the rest of your army. However, the anti-tank build seems to be popular so I am not really sure there.

Oh I know that for sure, the problem is whenever I try to include other elements I always struggle with how to properly implement them - i.e. the Raveners, Harpies, Gargoyles and what not. The help from you guys is thus very much appreciated

Using a bunch of the lesser seen units can be a bit of a challenge to get the hang of due to how poorly written the rules for most of them are. You mentioned about not knowing how to equip the Harpy so I figured I would give you some pointers on it and how to approach any of the units in this book.

Basically, the Tyranid book is different from virtually all the other books out there. Most books the choices you make are based on "What Fits My Playstyle". Tyranids though is all about avoiding the massive pitfalls of wasted points. Things that are just SO EXPENSIVE and situational that you will literally never use them. What that means being very focused on how you build your units.

Worthwhile Upgrades for MCs:
Toxin Sacs...and that's it. Adrenal Glands make you str 7 on the charge...which is meaningless since you can smash now. Regen is beyond worthless for its points. You might get ONE game where it will help, but only working on a 6 is just garbage and its crazy expensive.

The biggest point sink in the book is the Hive Tyrant. Here are literally the ONLY upgrades I would take for it:
- Toxin Sacs
- Armored Shell
- Wings
- Hive Commander (only if you are doing reserve lists)
Thats it. Literally everything else they can take is worthless and horrendously overpriced. Old Adversary MIGHT be worthwhile if you plan on using it in conjunction with devourer gaunts otherwise dont bother. With Scything Talons and Toxin Sacs (so re-rolling hits and wounds) Preferred Enemy is worthless.

Cluster Spines or Stinger Salvo. This is a non issue. Cluster Spines. Always.

Harpy - For me the only way to go is keeping him focused, deadly and cheapest he can be. So Stranglethorn Cannon, Cluster Spines. So, now he can fly over a unit, drop d3 large blasts, then pick a second unit (360 degree arc of fire) and blast them with two more large, higher strength templates. Good stuff

The Rest: With the big buff to Poison attacks and the big nerf (for us) for Furious Charge the only option anymore is just Toxin Sacs.

Biggest thing with Tyranids is to find out what a unit is used for and just 100% focusing on that. You then build your army up using these specialized units together to take down the enemy. So only CC options only for Raveners, or mass anti infantry for the Harpy since everything other then the horrendous Venom Cannon points you in the direction, etc. Best advice anyone can give with this army though is to really just try stuff out for yourself and practice with units you think are cool. I always loved the Ymgarls and it took me about 10 games to get good with them. Once I got the hang of them they have just turned into game winning assassins. The last tournament I took them to they racked up 22 Kill Points (5th ed) in 5 games. Good stuff.

[Tynskel]

Ah you are right about the Psychic Scream. I still find it very useful, considering it can hit many units.

I only take the Shredder Beetles because of the rending. Rending Templates are scary: no cover save because of the template, and no armor save because of the rend. It is for the wounds that you get that 'count'. A real problem of Tyranid weapons is the lack of AP.


If you have a foot Tyrant, I would go for Old Adversary. 6" bubble of Preferred Enemy is really good. Think about re-rolling to hit/wound Warriors with Death Spitters and Boneswords, etc. It isn't an upgrade for the Tyrant, it is an upgrade for the Army.

[Ghoulio]

Ah you are right about the Psychic Scream. I still find it very useful, considering it can hit many units.

I only take the Shredder Beetles because of the rending. Rending Templates are scary: no cover save because of the template, and no armor save because of the rend. It is for the wounds that you get that 'count'. A real problem of Tyranid weapons is the lack of AP.


If you have a foot Tyrant, I would go for Old Adversary. 6" bubble of Preferred Enemy is really good. Think about re-rolling to hit/wound Warriors with Death Spitters and Boneswords, etc. It isn't an upgrade for the Tyrant, it is an upgrade for the Army.

So a 25pts flamer with rending (so you need to hit 6 models just to cause one rend) on a walking tyrant is a good upgrade? Sorry I dont mean to be rude but I 100% just dont see it. Why is it 25pts? A Tzeentch Flamer (the demon) is 22pts for the entire model that is a jumper trooper (12" move which doubles the effectiveness of the flamer) and has a flamer that always wounds on a 4+ and ignores armor always. If those flamer upgrades were say 5-10pts AND you could take it with Wings it might be useful.

As for Old Adversary in regards to the Warriors you would have to make sure they are always within 6" of your Tyrant, and then you get 30 shots, which is 5 "1s" which means 2 1/2 extra hits (so 17 hits) which would result in 2 extra wounds against Space Marines. So instead of doing (on average) of 10 wounds you now do 12 wounds. Doesnt seem like much of a buff to me. And for Close Combat it makes less sense since scything talons re-rolls dice rolls of 1 and toxin sacs lets you re-roll all failed wounds. So it literally has no use in close combat.

All I am trying to do is point out how with the new rules a lot of the Tyranid abilities just arent useful anymore. All our abilities are just full of redundancies with the 6th ed rules. Many of the older upgrades you would take there is literally no use for them and the only 2 major buffs come in the form of Toxin Sacs and Wings. So i stand by what I said. Wings and Toxin Sacs and you are golden

[Anggul]

Old Adversary is definitely worth it, and is taken by many players because of this. As Tynskel mentioned in his comments on Trygons, Tyranids are best when a few units hit at once. This means you'll quite often have a couple of broods within 6" of the Tyrant when it counts, and it also means the Hive Tyrant itself re-rolls most failed hits and wounds due to high WS and Strength.

In general response to what is being said here: Sadly, yes, there are only a few units worth taking. It's a bad codex, but we make the best we can with it. Almost all of the units are either really good or really bad. You do see varied lists, but it's true that most people default to a couple of Termagant broods, the Tervigons to go with them, Hive Guard and Flyrant. This is because in 40k you need Troops to capture, anti-flyer and anti-tank. These fit these roles perfectly and only have about one alternative each. For example I've seen armies based upon lots of big broods of Hormagaunts do well, and Dakkafexes do pretty well against flyers. Zoanthropes obviously perform a less reliable but more powerful anti-tank role than Hive Guard, and have the advantage of being massively flexible due to the rulebook disciplines. I use both, but many just use Hive Guard.

Basically you can make varied lists, but not massively varied without them just not working. So many things (Lictors, Pyrovores, Mawlocs, Tyrannofexes, Rippers and the now very sadly nerfed Genestealers and Venomthropes) are just bad and don't do what they're meant to either due to bad rules or points costs.

[Tynskel]

Lictors and Pyrovores, yeah they are meh. Mawlocs are fine. They work really well if you manage to surround your opponents (remember, units are destroyed if they cannot get out of the way). Tyrannofexes are really nasty now, because of the 2+ armor. You just got to get them up close.

Rippers, well, they were always a trashcan unit, but are very useful. They take serious firepower dedication to kill, and they can provide cover for anything now. Oh, and they are cheap as stink. Not to mention, they benefit disproportionately from unit buffs as compared to other bugs.

Feel No Pain is nice on them.
Preferred Enemy makes them a serious opponent.


All outflankers were nerfed, so Genestealers are on par with everything else. They still rock, and the Broodlord is more insane that it was before. Not to mention, Fleet for both Ymgarls and Genestealers makes them a very serious threat.

The Parasite is still one of the best 'assassin' units in the game. You rend, they will die, unless they have Eternal Warrior. Same with Broodlords. Always purchase Implant Attack if you have rending! Instant Death at AP2!