1500 Tyranids

[Anggul]

Lictors and Pyrovores, yeah they are meh. Mawlocs are fine. They work really well if you manage to surround your opponents (remember, units are destroyed if they cannot get out of the way). Tyrannofexes are really nasty now, because of the 2+ armor. You just got to get them up close.

Rippers, well, they were always a trashcan unit, but are very useful. They take serious firepower dedication to kill, and they can provide cover for anything now. Oh, and they are cheap as stink. Not to mention, they benefit disproportionately from unit buffs as compared to other bugs.

Feel No Pain is nice on them.
Preferred Enemy makes them a serious opponent.


All outflankers were nerfed, so Genestealers are on par with everything else. They still rock, and the Broodlord is more insane that it was before. Not to mention, Fleet for both Ymgarls and Genestealers makes them a very serious threat.

The Parasite is still one of the best 'assassin' units in the game. You rend, they will die, unless they have Eternal Warrior. Same with Broodlords. Always purchase Implant Attack if you have rending! Instant Death at AP2!

Yeah, Broodlords are better now but the thing normal Genestealers are good for now are a Broodlord delivery system. As you say, all Outflanking units got nerfed, but it does render Genestealers particularly weak as they'll just get shot to pieces unless there's a convenient amount of terrain right near the table edge, whereas Kroot, for example, can put out some pretty decent firepower when they Outflank. Ymgarl Genestealers on the other hand are immense.

Tyrannofexes are just too expensive for what they do. If they were cheaper I would use them, but as it is they're just extortionately expensive when you can get so much more for the cost.

I suppose Mawlocs can work if you dedicate some stuff to them, I imagine they make a very tasty alpha strike if you bring 2 or 3 of them in at once with a Hive Commander Tyrant/Swarmlord. You could effectively eat a large chunk of the opponent's army all at once. They're certainly not something I would every take one of though. They're kind of like Eldar Fire Prisms in that respect.

[Tynskel]

You don't need Hive Commander to use Mawlocs.
Just use Burrow. They automatically deep strike the next turn. That is one of the Gems of Mawlocs.

Yes Tyrannofexes are expensive, but I don't think they are too expensive. The Rupture Cannon was improved immensely from the previous edition, and the acid spray+thorax swarm are nasty.

Genestealer tactics have changed: don't outflank. Infiltrate, and put them in hard cover. Go to ground with a 3+ cover save.

[Learn2Eel]

Using a bunch of the lesser seen units can be a bit of a challenge to get the hang of due to how poorly written the rules for most of them are. You mentioned about not knowing how to equip the Harpy so I figured I would give you some pointers on it and how to approach any of the units in this book.

Basically, the Tyranid book is different from virtually all the other books out there. Most books the choices you make are based on "What Fits My Playstyle". Tyranids though is all about avoiding the massive pitfalls of wasted points. Things that are just SO EXPENSIVE and situational that you will literally never use them. What that means being very focused on how you build your units.

Worthwhile Upgrades for MCs:
Toxin Sacs...and that's it. Adrenal Glands make you str 7 on the charge...which is meaningless since you can smash now. Regen is beyond worthless for its points. You might get ONE game where it will help, but only working on a 6 is just garbage and its crazy expensive.

The biggest point sink in the book is the Hive Tyrant. Here are literally the ONLY upgrades I would take for it:
- Toxin Sacs
- Armored Shell
- Wings
- Hive Commander (only if you are doing reserve lists)
Thats it. Literally everything else they can take is worthless and horrendously overpriced. Old Adversary MIGHT be worthwhile if you plan on using it in conjunction with devourer gaunts otherwise dont bother. With Scything Talons and Toxin Sacs (so re-rolling hits and wounds) Preferred Enemy is worthless.

Cluster Spines or Stinger Salvo. This is a non issue. Cluster Spines. Always.

Harpy - For me the only way to go is keeping him focused, deadly and cheapest he can be. So Stranglethorn Cannon, Cluster Spines. So, now he can fly over a unit, drop d3 large blasts, then pick a second unit (360 degree arc of fire) and blast them with two more large, higher strength templates. Good stuff

The Rest: With the big buff to Poison attacks and the big nerf (for us) for Furious Charge the only option anymore is just Toxin Sacs.

Biggest thing with Tyranids is to find out what a unit is used for and just 100% focusing on that. You then build your army up using these specialized units together to take down the enemy. So only CC options only for Raveners, or mass anti infantry for the Harpy since everything other then the horrendous Venom Cannon points you in the direction, etc. Best advice anyone can give with this army though is to really just try stuff out for yourself and practice with units you think are cool. I always loved the Ymgarls and it took me about 10 games to get good with them. Once I got the hang of them they have just turned into game winning assassins. The last tournament I took them to they racked up 22 Kill Points (5th ed) in 5 games. Good stuff.

I tend to agree with your summary on upgrades to give monstrous creatures. Particularly for ones like Trygons and Harpies, the other upgrades simply aren't necessary.

The Hive Tyrant is expensive but IMO it is pretty awesome, as you say you just have to be careful with what upgrades you give it. Personally, if I wanted a foot Tyrant I would typically just go for the Swarmlord - however there's no doubt a foot Tyrant still works depending on what you give it. I wouldn't bother with a dakka Tyrant where I am. As for a flying Tyrant, I tend to be very divided - I prefer to run things in pairs, except for a unit that works as a good 'odd one out' option. Unless I am also running a Harpy, I just can't run a single flying Hive Tyrant. I also know a common loadout is to give them the two brainleech devourers - with skyfire, you provide a pretty decent threat to light fliers. However, I still think the Tyrant will get shot down by a flyer anyway and will probably do too little in return to justify the cost. Taking just toxin sacs and wings, as well as the pair of scything talons makes it a horrendous assault unit that your opponent has to kill very quickly. Priced well for what it does IMO.

I agree, Cluster Spines just always seem the better deal to me, especially given the average BS of models that can use it. I really don't buy into things being bought because they can snap-fire or Overwatch with only four shots - template weapons are really the only exception. 6s are not my forte.

That is what I would do too, even against MEQs (my common opponents) the anti-infantry shooting of the Harpy is really nothing to be sneezed at, it can and will force a lot of saves whilst picking guys off with Vector Strikes.

Old Adversary is definitely worth it, and is taken by many players because of this. As Tynskel mentioned in his comments on Trygons, Tyranids are best when a few units hit at once. This means you'll quite often have a couple of broods within 6" of the Tyrant when it counts, and it also means the Hive Tyrant itself re-rolls most failed hits and wounds due to high WS and Strength.

In general response to what is being said here: Sadly, yes, there are only a few units worth taking. It's a bad codex, but we make the best we can with it. Almost all of the units are either really good or really bad. You do see varied lists, but it's true that most people default to a couple of Termagant broods, the Tervigons to go with them, Hive Guard and Flyrant. This is because in 40k you need Troops to capture, anti-flyer and anti-tank. These fit these roles perfectly and only have about one alternative each. For example I've seen armies based upon lots of big broods of Hormagaunts do well, and Dakkafexes do pretty well against flyers. Zoanthropes obviously perform a less reliable but more powerful anti-tank role than Hive Guard, and have the advantage of being massively flexible due to the rulebook disciplines. I use both, but many just use Hive Guard.

Basically you can make varied lists, but not massively varied without them just not working. So many things (Lictors, Pyrovores, Mawlocs, Tyrannofexes, Rippers and the now very sadly nerfed Genestealers and Venomthropes) are just bad and don't do what they're meant to either due to bad rules or points costs.

I do agree, but IMO I probably wouldn't get it - the usual Hive Tyrant I would run would be a flying one, and hence the Preferred Enemy upgrade won't be very useful. I definitely see the uses of it though.

Well, I lived through the old Chaos codex, and I certainly don't mind playing with the Tyranids. The reality is that I am mostly out for fun. In any case, there are elements to Tyranids which I think are highly competitive - the problem is that it means your lists tend to consist of only a few types of units, and hence it is easy for opponents to adapt to your army list.

I prefer Zoanthropes visually to Hive Guard, however I think one unit is just fine. Zoanthropes are awesome simply because of their versatility - an exceedingly nasty short-range tank hunter, a very nasty MEQ killer, and even a support psyker with rulebook powers. Even one unit of them can fulfill a very different role in each game on the fly. On the other hand, Hive Guard are solely used for anti-tank - although they are funny against other mutli-wound models with T4 or lower.

Lictors and Pyrovores, yeah they are meh. Mawlocs are fine. They work really well if you manage to surround your opponents (remember, units are destroyed if they cannot get out of the way). Tyrannofexes are really nasty now, because of the 2+ armor. You just got to get them up close.

Rippers, well, they were always a trashcan unit, but are very useful. They take serious firepower dedication to kill, and they can provide cover for anything now. Oh, and they are cheap as stink. Not to mention, they benefit disproportionately from unit buffs as compared to other bugs.

Feel No Pain is nice on them.
Preferred Enemy makes them a serious opponent.


All outflankers were nerfed, so Genestealers are on par with everything else. They still rock, and the Broodlord is more insane that it was before. Not to mention, Fleet for both Ymgarls and Genestealers makes them a very serious threat.

The Parasite is still one of the best 'assassin' units in the game. You rend, they will die, unless they have Eternal Warrior. Same with Broodlords. Always purchase Implant Attack if you have rending! Instant Death at AP2!

I like Lictors, their models and background are awesome. Sadly, yeah, they just aren't that good. However, I wouldn't mind trying out a brood of them one day just to see if I can make them work. I still don't buy into the Tyrannofex - I am simply not willing to pay that many points for a model that isn't going to kill much in a game. It will still get smacked silly by power fists. Sure, it is near impossible to kill but I just can't take it when I look at the much cheaper Trygon which has similar durability and much higher offensive capabilities.

Genestealers were hit very hard though. Striking Scorpions and the like at least are more durable. Genestealers really need to be Infiltrated. I still think they are a decent choice, they just aren't an auto-include unit anymore. Players just have to be much more thoughtful when using them.
I really don't buy into Implant Attack. Rending is hail-mary as it is - the chances of you surviving and getting to use it against something worthwhile are very, very slim. Paying 10 or more points for something like that just isn't worth it to me, for the same reason I wouldn't buy Rending for a single Bloodletter in a unit.

Yeah, Broodlords are better now but the thing normal Genestealers are good for now are a Broodlord delivery system. As you say, all Outflanking units got nerfed, but it does render Genestealers particularly weak as they'll just get shot to pieces unless there's a convenient amount of terrain right near the table edge, whereas Kroot, for example, can put out some pretty decent firepower when they Outflank. Ymgarl Genestealers on the other hand are immense.

Tyrannofexes are just too expensive for what they do. If they were cheaper I would use them, but as it is they're just extortionately expensive when you can get so much more for the cost.

I suppose Mawlocs can work if you dedicate some stuff to them, I imagine they make a very tasty alpha strike if you bring 2 or 3 of them in at once with a Hive Commander Tyrant/Swarmlord. You could effectively eat a large chunk of the opponent's army all at once. They're certainly not something I would every take one of though. They're kind of like Eldar Fire Prisms in that respect.

Agreed with basically all of the above. As good as the Mawloc attack is, it is still very random. The Trygon just seems to be a better investment for me, especially if I need targets for my opponent to be shooting at instead of my Tervigons.

You don't need Hive Commander to use Mawlocs.
Just use Burrow. They automatically deep strike the next turn. That is one of the Gems of Mawlocs.

Yes Tyrannofexes are expensive, but I don't think they are too expensive. The Rupture Cannon was improved immensely from the previous edition, and the acid spray+thorax swarm are nasty.

Genestealer tactics have changed: don't outflank. Infiltrate, and put them in hard cover. Go to ground with a 3+ cover save.

How has the Rupture Cannon improved exactly? I'm sorry, I don't understand this point.

That's a good tactic with the Genestealers. Just be careful not to get a Synapse creature into range of them on the first turn. It is nasty especially if your opponent is afraid of the Trygons, Raveners, Hormagaunts, Tervigons, Harpies, etc that are barreling towards them.

[Tynskel]

The rupture cannon improved by default: it's main problem was the 5th edition damage table, and with its high strength, it is all but guaranteed to do at least a hull point damage. That's a huge improvement from before.

I am not sure by what you mean by the synapse comment.
Genestealers don't need synapse creatures. You miss understand the Broodlord with implant attack. Because of the challenge system, you are more likely to use the implant attack. It causes instant death at the same time you rend. That's just awesome: roll that 6 with re-rolls to wound. You are Initiative 7. The only things out there that are faster usually have eternal warrior, or they will simply kill the broodlord outright.

[Anggul]

You don't need Hive Commander to use Mawlocs.
Just use Burrow. They automatically deep strike the next turn. That is one of the Gems of Mawlocs.

Yes Tyrannofexes are expensive, but I don't think they are too expensive. The Rupture Cannon was improved immensely from the previous edition, and the acid spray+thorax swarm are nasty.

I forgot about that when writing that comment, good point. I'm tempted to write a list with 3 of them all burrowing in straight away just to see how much of a chunk it takes out of the enemy troops. They mostly likely won't make up their points, but that's not how Tyranids work anyway. If it disrupts them enough and kills off a lot of their troops, they'll have done well. As long as they don't scatter off wildly, I imagine it might be quite scary.

The Rupture Cannon went from sometimes okay-ish in 5th (just because it was our only long-range anti-tank) to pathetic in this 6th. You're maybe knocking off a Hull Point a turn, and that's assuming you always succeed at penetrating, which you probably won't. Without AP2 or 1 to let you blow them up with Penetrating Hits, it's just awful for what you pay, even with the long range. I certainly wouldn't pay 265pts for maybe 1 Hull Point a turn. The only way to run them now is Acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae, for mass templatey goodness!

[Tynskel]

I disagree.
The Hull points has made it assured that you are doing effective damage to the opposing tank. I found the biggest problem with the Rupture cannon was it was too random (well, damaging tanks, in general, was random). Now, you know if you chip away, the tank will die.

It will do a hull point of damage to any tank at worst on a 4+ (armor 14). The fact that most transports that it will hit automatically take a hullpoint of damage is awesome.

[Learn2Eel]

The rupture cannon improved by default: it's main problem was the 5th edition damage table, and with its high strength, it is all but guaranteed to do at least a hull point damage. That's a huge improvement from before.

I am not sure by what you mean by the synapse comment.
Genestealers don't need synapse creatures. You miss understand the Broodlord with implant attack. Because of the challenge system, you are more likely to use the implant attack. It causes instant death at the same time you rend. That's just awesome: roll that 6 with re-rolls to wound. You are Initiative 7. The only things out there that are faster usually have eternal warrior, or they will simply kill the broodlord outright.

I don't really know how the changes to the damage table improve the Rupture Cannon, before it could wreck vehicles on a 5+, now it can only destroy them on a 6+ (unless it shoots at open-topped vehicles). Though I do agree in regards to hull points.

What I meant was that any Tyranid, even Genestealers, becomes Fearless when in Synapse range. When you become Fearless, you automatically stand up from Pinning (unless I've read the rule incorrectly). Hence, if you get into synapse range of them in the first turn whilst doing that go to ground in hard cover trick, they will automatically stand up and thus become vulnerable.

That's my point though. How many multi-wound models will you honestly come up against that won't just smack the Broodlord silly anyway? I don't think it is bad by any means, but for the majority of things I would want to be in a challenge with, I wouldn't need the instant death attack. Mind you, it would be pretty good against a Space Marine Captain, provided you have some luck and you roll average for the Hypnotic Gaze (seriously, that power is ridiculous now).

I forgot about that when writing that comment, good point. I'm tempted to write a list with 3 of them all burrowing in straight away just to see how much of a chunk it takes out of the enemy troops. They mostly likely won't make up their points, but that's not how Tyranids work anyway. If it disrupts them enough and kills off a lot of their troops, they'll have done well. As long as they don't scatter off wildly, I imagine it might be quite scary.

The Rupture Cannon went from sometimes okay-ish in 5th (just because it was our only long-range anti-tank) to pathetic in this 6th. You're maybe knocking off a Hull Point a turn, and that's assuming you always succeed at penetrating, which you probably won't. Without AP2 or 1 to let you blow them up with Penetrating Hits, it's just awful for what you pay, even with the long range. I certainly wouldn't pay 265pts for maybe 1 Hull Point a turn. The only way to run them now is Acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Larvae, for mass templatey goodness!

It would be scary, and it would play severe mind games with your opponent no doubt. That and Mawlocs are relatively cheap as far as monstrous creatures go, and still hilariously hard to kill. IMO though I prefer the Trygons for the better impact in combat, as well as actually staying on the field and thus soaking up firepower from my Tervigons, but that is just me.

That is unfortunately how I see it. The Rupture Cannon itself doesn't bother me, it is just the fact that the Tyrannofex is too pricey in general.

I disagree.
The Hull points has made it assured that you are doing effective damage to the opposing tank. I found the biggest problem with the Rupture cannon was it was too random (well, damaging tanks, in general, was random). Now, you know if you chip away, the tank will die.

It will do a hull point of damage to any tank at worst on a 4+ (armor 14). The fact that most transports that it will hit automatically take a hullpoint of damage is awesome.

The problem is, you only get 2 shots a turn, averaging only 1 hit. In a 5-turn game, that's only 5 hits. Pretty much every vehicle has 3 Hull Points. On average, it will take you three turns just to wreck a vehicle. Whilst the long range of the gun helps there, three turns is simply too long. That, and even with S10, you still need to penetrate the vehicle. Against a Predator, it will take you 4 to 5 turns, and by then, it will have already done its job. Against a Dreadnought, 4 turns, and again, it would have done damage by then.

And plus, if you are shooting a 265 point model at a transport that will be anywhere between 35-80 points and it takes you three turns to kill it, something is seriously up.

[Tynskel]

You misunderstand the "Go to ground" rule. You can always go to ground (unless you are a monsterous creature). That's voluntary. Pinning is 'involuntary'.

I can do the maths on the rupture cannon. It isn't about the '1 shot, 1 kill'. The rupture cannon was not good enough for that. What it does better is the perpetual damage until destruction. The Rupture cannon is more more reliable a putting damage on a tank the will end up in its destruction. That's hands down better, because you don't want your squad 'damaging' the tank when they get into CC, you want them destroying the tank, and eating the insides.

One thing bugs are really good at is surrounding vehicles.

[Learn2Eel]

Fearless units automatically pass Pinning tests and cannot Go to Ground, so I took that to mean they automatically stand up if they gain the Fearless special rule whilst they have gone to ground - hence a Genestealer unit can Go to Ground, but once a Synapse creature gets in range of them, they stand up. I'm not entirely sure though.

That still isn't enough for a 265 point monstrous creature. I could fit in five Hive Guard for that cost who will do much more for the points, especially against skimmers.

[Tynskel]

alright, yes. That's right.
well, Genestealers don't need synapse, so you don't need to put some near them. Although, I say screw it, and if you have some nearby, fine. You know for 100% that they won't run away!

Yes, you could fit in 5 hive guard, but you are then sacrificing your precious Elites Slot for majority Hive Guard, of which you could have solid sneak attack (ymgarls), psykers (zoanthropes), DOOOOOM of Malatai, and more.


The Tyranid codex is all about synergies. We know that the Trygon/Tervigon/Hive Guard mix works well, however, there are plenty of combinations that work well, and if I am so bold, work better than the usual Spam.