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  1. #1
    Battle-Brother
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    Post Custom Grey Knight Special Character

    Hi Guys,

    First off, not sure if this is the right place, but I'm thinking of 'creating' new character rules for my converted Grey Knight Contemptor Dreadnought, giving him a name and back-story so i can square the cost, time and effort with something that's a little more special on the table-top. If this is the wrong place, please kick me in the right direction, and I'll shift...

    If this is the right place, here goes...

    The basic background for this guy is that he was an exceptional DK pilot who was almost killed putting ceramite boot to deamonic rear-end (specifically, taking on three greater daemons in single combat, killing them(and taking a mortal wound) before using the DK personal teleporter to shunt back to the battle-barge in orbit (extreme distance, i know, but that's the point), and he had to get home somehow...)

    Because of the dedicated service (he's a GK) and cus he would die otherwise, he was put into a dreadnought suit to keep him alive (and kicking daemon a$$) and sent back into the fight once more.

    His rules ( this is the bit i need some feedback on; is it beardy (i dont want to be too beardy, but a few wisps of beardiness are fine), would you let him into a normal game, etc..)

    Standard Ven-dred profile (so ws5,bs5,s6,12-12-10,i4*,a2)

    WARGEAR: Assault Cannon, The Doomsword, Kelsier’s Wrath, Psybolt Ammunition, Smoke Launchers.
    The Doomsword: The doomsword is a Nemesis Great Sword, which counts as a Dreadnought Close Combat weapon.
    Kelsier’s Wrath: The left vambrace of Kelsier’s armour incorporates a twin-linked heavy bolter.
    SPECIAL RULES: The Aegis, Advanced Aegis, Preferred enemy (Daemons), Psychic Pilot, Venerable

    *Pushing his boundaries: If Kelsier’s Wrath is fired in the shooting phase, make an initiative test at the beginning of the subsequent combat phase. If failed, for this round of combat Jeff strikes at I1.

    PSYCHIC POWERS: Dark Excommunication, Fortitude


    Basically it's merging the rules for a ven-dread and a dreadknight. the model has a doomsword (and left wrist) from the DK kit. I was just going to incorporate a storm bolter for grey-knighty-ness, but it looked so piddly and useless compared to the rest of him, so i upgraded him to a heavy bolter (hence a bump in points and the Pushing His Boundaries rule - there'll be fluff about him pushing the DK suit further than most, but the rule's mainly there to offset the increased fire-power a little). I'll have to get some decent pics of the model so far (pretty much built, needs some tweaks and then painting) and upload them...

    His points come in at 220, which is the basic Ven-dread points costs, with the upgrades pointed as per standard vehicle upgrades (the points for the TLHB are taken from Razorback-Rhino = cost), the standard DK points for the sword, and a premium for creating my own rules.

    He takes up an Elites slot (as per the ven-dread profile)

    I think that covers everything...any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Librarian
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    If the Doom-sword is the same sword carried by the Dreadknights, then why not just keep it's rules, with the addition it's considered AP:2? *as in no double strength, but you get the re-rolls* Also, carrying a TL heavy bolter and an Assault Cannon is extremely heavy, even for a Dreadnought's capacity. To mount that on one side, would put extreme stress on the dread suit itself and cause tons of balance issues, I would suggest making them shoulder mounted, and having them be a separate (third) additional weapon. Overall it seems ok, but i would like to see it playtested before you settle on a final points cost for it. People can theorize about it all they want, but once the dice starts rolling, you get your proof.

  3. #3
    Battle-Brother
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    The TLHB and Assault Cannon are on different sides of the model; cannon on the right, TLHB on the left (where any self-respecting Grey Knight keeps it...yes, Crowe and Draigo, i'm lookin' at you...) so they'd balance each other out, and it's a modified TLHB (so not as big)...though I take your point, they might be a little weighty. The main reason behind it is to make him a grey knight, hence vambrace-mounted.

    I'd also argue that, by keeping to the rules of a DCC with integrated bolter(albeit a TLHB rather than a storm-bolter, and on the wrist rather than in the sword) a weapon-destroyed result would remove both the doomsword and Wrath weapons...

    the main reason for the DCC bit is that, after all, it's a sword toted by a dreadnought. I guess another option, keeping to the DK side of it's rules, would be to make it a normal doomsword, and give him Hammerhand like the DK has..? or is that playing with (psychic) fire?

    Thanks for the feedback, though...things to hammer out in my head
    Last edited by WillyRapier; 10-31-2012 at 08:53 AM. Reason: tweaking the wording...re-reading is always worth it, folks!

  4. #4
    Brother-Captain
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    Back in my day they glued their guns on their weapons... because reasons.

  5. #5

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    I don't have a codex handy, but how much of a premium are you talking about?

    I think it's okay for the Doomsword to be a x2S greatsword, given that presumably he was using that same sword to slay daemons so mightily. I even think twin-linked heavy bolters instead of the usual built-in storm bolter is fine, depending on points cost.

    Alternatively, what about a "heavy storm bolter" that was just 24" S5 AP4 assault 2? That keeps the built-in weapon out of the 36" range bracket (which no other dreadnought has) but still helps account for the awesome bigness of the gun as modeled.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfmusashi View Post
    Back in my day they glued their guns on their weapons... because reasons.
    I assume you're referring to the 2nd(?) edition GK models, which were mostly terminators with guns built into their halberds? I'm inclined to agree that it's a shame we lost that form the current models, because i really liked the idea, however to fit the rest of the army (as i dont have Crowe or Draigo) it has to be left-vambrace-mounted

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabterayl View Post
    I don't have a codex handy, but how much of a premium are you talking about?
    Alternatively, what about a "heavy storm bolter" that was just 24" S5 AP4 assault 2? That keeps the built-in weapon out of the 36" range bracket (which no other dreadnought has) but still helps account for the awesome bigness of the gun as modeled.
    It's only something like a 10pt premium, because while i think it's necessary to balance him out, i don't really want to pay it . At the same time, i don't think he's that overpowered, with the special rule mitigating the sword, and having a standard ven dread profile. I do like the idea of nerfing the gun slightly, as you suggest. 24" s5 ap4 a2 works, and removing the twin-linking brings it back into line with the cannon on his other side.

  7. #7
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    In the name of internet nitpickery they're late Rogue Trader, like Ragnar, Njal, Ulrik, Yarrick, and Ghaz. There was also a guy with a bolter sword, I wish I could remember how many parries a nemesis force weapon allowed in 2nd. My only beef with the new models, and it's a result of the new modular construction, are the magazines on the storm bolters. They can't reach them unless they swivel around the vambrace. It's stupid to focus on such a thing, but it bothers me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfmusashi View Post
    In the name of internet nitpickery they're late Rogue Trader, like Ragnar, Njal, Ulrik, Yarrick, and Ghaz. There was also a guy with a bolter sword, I wish I could remember how many parries a nemesis force weapon allowed in 2nd. My only beef with the new models, and it's a result of the new modular construction, are the magazines on the storm bolters. They can't reach them unless they swivel around the vambrace. It's stupid to focus on such a thing, but it bothers me.
    And yet we both agree, they do seem oddly placed. It's no more or less stupid to focus on that than it is for me to focus on Crowe and Draigo having their bolters on the wrong hand...which as everyone in 40K is right-handed (gross generalization, but i'm almost certain it's true...) , makes it even more of a pain to reload as they have to do it with their off-hands...

    If it didnt mean sculpting the armour back around where they'd be cut off (and as i've magnetised the wrists, a whole load more stormbolters) i'd try and integrate them into the blades á la the old models.

    they'll do for now, though. I do like the modular construction idea, though, and was disappointed it didn't appear in the new Chaos models...the Raptors would have been better models for it, IMO

  9. #9

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    Here's how I would analyze the points for this:

    You start with a venerable dreadnought with the listed "stock" upgrades. On top of that, you're adding:
    1. DCCW re-rolls hits, wounds, and armor penetration
    2. Built-in storm bolter is better than usual
    3. You can't have 1 and 2 at the same time without a 33% chance of a penalty

    I would analyze that as how much you would pay for 1 all by itself, and then how much you would pay for 2, knowing that you can't use it without a 33% chance of nerfing your CC.

    I'm no GK expert, but that seems like worth more than 10 points to me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabterayl View Post
    Here's how I would analyze the points for this:

    You start with a venerable dreadnought with the listed "stock" upgrades. On top of that, you're adding:
    1. DCCW re-rolls hits, wounds, and armor penetration
    2. Built-in storm bolter is better than usual
    3. You can't have 1 and 2 at the same time without a 33% chance of a penalty
    1. As a dreadknought, i already have a DCCW, so the extra i'm paying for is the re-roll, which is the stock upgrade points cost of the sword taken from the Dreadknight profile. (i wont post the actual value; i'm not sure of forum rules).
    2. Stock storm bolter is also build into the DCCW, so the points upgrade i'm paying (as mentioned, the points for a razorback over a rhino...and i'll point out that you lose a storm bolter from the rhino in that upgrade) is for the +1S, +1AP. As you suggested, it's a "heavy storm bolter", rather than the TL heavy bolter, so also no twin-linking.
    3. That nerfing is there to mitigate the upgrades. not a lot more i can say on that point.

    in terms of points, i think only some playtesting to see how effective he becomes will help. Aside from nailing down the points value, does the rest seem reasonable?
    Last edited by WillyRapier; 11-01-2012 at 11:39 AM. Reason: extra clarificaiton

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