Looks like the days of metal are dead

[Hunter]

i would like to add a little something here.
Metal ages a lot better than plastic.
over the years i have got my mits on a lot of second hand minis and recently i began cutting in to some old plastic marines to do some conversions , the plastic became very brittle with age and it shattered , something i never had problems with vintage/second hand metal , soke it in your paint remover of choice and voila , ready for a second chance at life on the war gaming table.

I wonder how well fine cast will fair in a couple of years on the second hand market ?

[Wildeybeast]

i would like to add a little something here.
Metal ages a lot better than plastic.
over the years i have got my mits on a lot of second hand minis and recently i began cutting in to some old plastic marines to do some conversions , the plastic became very brittle with age and it shattered , something i never had problems with vintage/second hand metal , soke it in your paint remover of choice and voila , ready for a second chance at life on the war gaming table.

I wonder how well fine cast will fair in a couple of years on the second hand market ?

That's true, metal does tend to have more durability over the years and is the easiest to repaint. Call that one for the pros of metal then. Got to say I still think it is far outweighed by the cons.

[Lexington]

So here's a question to try and get us back to the OP; does metal have any redeeming qualities. Does it have any features which people feel make it better in anyway to either Finecast or plastic?

Small joins. Finecast is terrible here. I've seen so many broken in blisters, or snapping off during assembly, it's put me off the material for anything but very specific models.

[Cpt Codpiece]

in regard to the older plastics snapping.

if you strip plastics with chemicals, sometimes depending on the method used this can happen, it can also go the other way and soften the plastic.

and those old RTB 01 kits and the old rhino/landraider plastics were quite brittle plastic if i remember right, they were very shiney and smooth that much i do remember very clearly.

in all honesty when it comes to conversions i am glad i dont need a saw and vise anymore, just for a head/gun swap, now i can cleanly take a small detail from a mini without totally ruining the model, meaning i can do more conversions

for all of the finecast problems, the biggest issue i have is the older models that were built for metal do not have the durability on thinner items like swords and staves, but the models whih are designed with FC in mind seem ok, the details are sculpted a little thicker so as not to snap.

but this is hardly a FC only thing, metal especially the old pre white metal days, would bend and eventually snap.... snapping in such a way as to make a fix hard, if not impossible..... as the metal would swell where it had bent and getting it back meant rermoving the damaged metal.

[Wildeybeast]

Small joins. Finecast is terrible here. I've seen so many broken in blisters, or snapping off during assembly, it's put me off the material for anything but very specific models.

I did say inherent strengths in metal rather than just lacking the problems FC has. I don't understand the point about small joins, surely metal conversions to FC have exactly the same joins as the old metal ones?

[plawolf]

I like metal, especially the weight and durability of it. I can well understand the limitations and annoyance factor of having your basic rank and file troops be metal (old DH player), and plastic troops beats metal troops hands down, no question. But there is just something special and reassuring about metal special characters.

I don't think it's that much effort to make sure you put your metal characters in your carrying case once they are removed as a casualty, and other people generally tend to be more careful and respectful with your special characters so mine very rarely fall on the floor.

I have also taken to magnetizing the arms of my special characters and even most of my elites like Vanguard and sternguard. This means detaching limbs are a non-issue and is also very handy for changing poses and layouts for when I fancy trying something different.

I admit I am probably biased because most of my collection are small infantry models. The medal Sanguinor model I have was a royal pain in the arse to put together, and even though it is mostly a display model since I don't field him very often, he still falls to bits far too often for my liking. I can imagine Astorath being a similar pain and would not like to try making a larger metal model like Hive Tyrants and the like.

[Kawauso]

I admit I am probably biased because most of my collection are small infantry models. The medal Sanguinor model I have was a royal pain in the arse to put together, and even though it is mostly a display model since I don't field him very often, he still falls to bits far too often for my liking. I can imagine Astorath being a similar pain and would not like to try making a larger metal model like Hive Tyrants and the like.

Actually, I have a metal Hive Tyrant and it's probably the only metal model that I don't really mind. It's sturdy and well-balanced, the weight keeps it from sliding and it's just...solid. Now mind you, it was a royal pain in the butt to assemble, and I -would- replace it with a plastic version if it weren't already painted and money were no object, but still - as metal goes, that model is pretty good.

The sorts of metal models that I loooathe are, like your Sanguinor, marine dudes with jump packs. They're always in wicked, dynamic poses...and top-heavy as hell. Not to mention the jump packs weigh a tonne and are connected to the body by a pretty small area, all things considered. Though by far my least favourite metal model has to have been Zoanthropes. I replaced those [insert expletive here] with Finecast as soon as it was an option.

[plawolf]

Actually, I have a metal Hive Tyrant and it's probably the only metal model that I don't really mind. It's sturdy and well-balanced, the weight keeps it from sliding and it's just...solid. Now mind you, it was a royal pain in the butt to assemble, and I -would- replace it with a plastic version if it weren't already painted and money were no object, but still - as metal goes, that model is pretty good.

The sorts of metal models that I loooathe are, like your Sanguinor, marine dudes with jump packs. They're always in wicked, dynamic poses...and top-heavy as hell. Not to mention the jump packs weigh a tonne and are connected to the body by a pretty small area, all things considered. Though by far my least favourite metal model has to have been Zoanthropes. I replaced those [insert expletive here] with Finecast as soon as it was an option.

Ah yes, metal jump packs. Haven't met one that did not need multi-pinning. Falls over real easy as well. Still love them over the plastic/resin ones.

[Lexington]

I did say inherent strengths in metal rather than just lacking the problems FC has.

Well, that'd be the strength - it holds small joins better. Really, it does small/thin parts better overall, in so much as they're less prone to breaking during shipping and handling. This is something that can be designed around, as Cpt Codpiece notes, but it's a point in metal's favor that it holds such things much better.

Really, it's Finecast that I can't see the inherent advantage of, aside from weight. It's brittle, it's apparently a real problem to cast properly, and it raised the prices on minis by, what, 25% or so on average?

[Wildeybeast]

Well, that'd be the strength - it holds small joins better. Really, it does small/thin parts better overall, in so much as they're less prone to breaking during shipping and handling. This is something that can be designed around, as Cpt Codpiece notes, but it's a point in metal's favor that it holds such things much better.

Really, it's Finecast that I can't see the inherent advantage of, aside from weight. It's brittle, it's apparently a real problem to cast properly, and it raised the prices on minis by, what, 25% or so on average?

I have to disagree and say I've found the strength of Finecast joints to be much stronger than on equivalent metal models, especially on larger models. I agree that thin small bits are more prone to breaking, though they can be glued back together really easily. It's a bit more of pain to bend/straighten things like staffs than on metal, though doing so doesn't weaken the piece like it does on metal. As for the price issue, I stand to be corrected on this but as I understand it the resin is actually cheaper than metal and uses the same moulds. The price increase is GW after more money, rather than inherent cost of the material/process. But hey, if you've had bad experiences with FC, I think anyone will struggle to sell you on it, just like no one is ever going to convince me that Zoanthropes and Screaming Skull catapults were better in metal. Sadly it's here to stay until they manage to turn everything into plastic.