Swarm rules and instant death

[MDK]

If a swarm is hit by a weapon that is strong enough to cause instant death are the wounds still doubled? Example: If a heldrake uses balefire on a unit of rippers and wounds 3 would it result in 6 instant death wounds applied to the unit?

[isotope99]

Yes, as far as I can see there is no exemption (except nurglings which are currently eternal warriors). Best way to clear out necron scarabs are S6 blasts/templates.

[Tynskel]

Hmmm... A swarm gets doubled. Hmmmm... Is that referring to the unit or model?

I believe 'a' is singular and hence double wounds applies to singular models. If a swarm is hit by instant death, then it killed regardless of how many wounds, and therefore, double wounds is irrevelant.

Ex.
IC joins swarm unit. The double wounds do not spillover to the IC.
Look out sir- instant death blast. Two models are not removed for one 'look out sir'. There is no spillover.

[Necron2.0]

Except that it is the unit that is a swarm, not the model.

[Tynskel]

not that that matters for this discussion, but you are incorrect. The unit is infantry, beasts, or jump infantry.

Each individual model has the swarm attribute.

[Demonus]

Trynskel is correct. You do not double the amount of models removed, you double the wounds.

A base takes a wound. It is doubled because it is a swarm, hence taking 2 wounds. It is removed due to the strength being double the toughness.

So 3 wounds caused to 10 scarab bases removes 3 bases

[Mystery.Shadow]

Double Toughness Blast/Template (Instant Death) vs Swarms:

The old FAQ said it would be two dead bases. I wonder why it's not in the current rulebook/FAQ

[Tynskel]

probably because it was dumb and didn't make any sense.

[Lord Krungharr]

The correct way to apply this rule is as follows: (for example Heldrake vs Scarabs w 6 bases)
1)Heldrake sprays the template hitting 5 scarab bases (let's say the positioning makes that the max the flame template can hit).
2)Heldrake rolls to wound and inflicts 4 wounds. This gets doubled to 8 wounds on the scarab squad because Swarms are susceptible to blasts/templates.
3)First wound is applied to the closest scarab base. Scarab base is removed due to instant death from the first wound (at AP3 I don't think they get saves from that weapon). Next closest base is removed due to Instant Death, and so on.
4)The entire squad would get erased. Wounds get doubled before saves get applied.

[Nabterayl]

The correct way to apply this rule is as follows: (for example Heldrake vs Scarabs w 6 bases)
1)Heldrake sprays the template hitting 5 scarab bases (let's say the positioning makes that the max the flame template can hit).
2)Heldrake rolls to wound and inflicts 4 wounds. This gets doubled to 8 wounds on the scarab squad because Swarms are susceptible to blasts/templates.
3)First wound is applied to the closest scarab base. Scarab base is removed due to instant death from the first wound (at AP3 I don't think they get saves from that weapon). Next closest base is removed due to Instant Death, and so on.
4)The entire squad would get erased. Wounds get doubled before saves get applied.

That's incorrect. As the Swarm rule says, "If a Swarm suffers an unsaved Wound from a Blast, Large Blast or Template weapon, each unsaved Wound is multiplied to two unsaved Wounds." You don't double until after saves are taken, and you double not for the wound pool but for the individual swarm that has suffered an unsaved wound. If the Heldrake hits five bases and rolls 4 wounds, the Instant Death wound that each base suffers is doubled, resulting in a total of 4 removed bases.