The First Heretic

[The Last Lamenter]

I've been hiding in a hovel for the past six months reading book after book from the Black Library. Right now I'm reading the First Heretic, finishing Storm of Iron and still pondering A Thousand Sons. I had thought that 40k's pathos had reached its pinnacle in the short story The Iron within. And I had thought that The Intellectual limits of the fictional universe had been reached with The Last Church and the seemingly contradictory (though probably deliberate I think they want to be purposely ambiguous so as to inspire our jabbering at each other on these boards) stuff about the saint in the first three books, but The first Heretic.... The implications that this story contains for the universe at large cannot be understated. I look forward to finishing this book, but I already highly recommend it.

[Cpt Codpiece]

yep, i loved the first heretic too.

once i had read it i jumped straight to aurelian, do the same if you can..... i know its one of those limited eds but there are ways around that *nudge nudge, wink wink*

my mind was set after reading the books just who was the true driving force behind the entire heresy. the heresy should really be the Lorgarian heresy, not horus.

[Nemesis]

I've read this series with both excitement and puzzlement. (I've got up to 15 in the series).

I've come to the conclusion that, in actual fact, the Heresy was started by the Emperor himself. I know that's contentious but there are so many hints about his 'real self' and the fact that he made so many gigantic mistakes in his handling of certain things EG. The banning of psykers in the Imperium including Librarians, the humiliation of Magnus at the same time, one of, if not THE most loyal son and of course the further humiliation of Lorgar AND his Legion "KNEEL"!!

Then, the sending of the Wolves to destroy Prospero AND Magnus after Magnus tried to psychically warn him of the Heresy, a certain own goal.

The whole lot left me wondering exactly what the Emperor was up to. If he was such a great 'Human Being', the greatest mind in the Galaxy etc, etc, how could he be such an utter banana in his actions?

All very odd methinks.

[BrotherAlpharius]

There are certainly plenty of hints that have led me to the conclusion that the Heresy was part of the Emperor's plan. In short, the Emperor was tens of thousands of years old and must have sacrificed billions of lives before he ever started the Primarch project. Above all else it seems he's a long-term big picture guy. I think that despite the fact that some of the Primarchs seem to have genuinely loved the Emperor and believed he loved them they were a set of tools and as such expendable.

Ultimately the Great Crusade would run out of worlds to conquer and without a driving and unify goal the Imperium would collapse in on itself and/or one or more Primarchs would probably try to overthrow the Emperor. He therefore intended to engineer a rebellion which woul achieve several things: cull some of the more troublesome Legions like the World Eaters and Night Lords; create a big scary external threat that would scare the Imperium into obedience - a tried and true practice of dictators throughout history, finally it would give him the grounds to get rid of anyone from Primarch downwards in future just by suggesting they were a traitor - look how paranoid the Heresy made the Imperium.

His one major miscalculation was that he stirred up and pushed too many Primarchs and when Horus turned there was a domino effect such that it wasn't say fourteen legions against four but nine against nine and it was a war that cost the Emperor his life.

[neutrino]

the emperor didnt order the destruction of pospero only to bring him magnus, it was horus who told the space wolves to destroy pospero

[droozy]

I think I'm with Nemisis on this one. If the Emperor is so smart, so all knowing and seeing, why is he constantly surprised? Why do his wayward sons constantly get the better of him? I worked at a company once that was ran very poorly by very intelligent people. This always confused me until I talked to someone who changed my perspective. He asked me if I really believed that people this smart would make this many mistakes. The answer is no, they were just playing a different game to achieve thier own ends. From my understanding the Emperor made deals with the chaos gods in order to create his primarchs. Why did the most intelligent, powerful and insightful being in the universe enter into an agreement with the most insidious and devious beings in the universe? He must have had some inclination as to the outcome. Maybe his goal wasn't to be a rotting husk trapped on the golden throne but his goal wasn't a happy and prosperous humanity. Something else but far be it for me to muse on the workings of such a complex and beautiful intellect. The Emperor protects. But not very well.

[Dalleron]

Iirc, the emperor made the deal with the chaos gods to make the primarchs because he couldn't do it on his own. Then he tried to prevent them messing with the newly created primarchs, which they got around and we all know the rest. He probably believed he could prevent their interference.

It is possible that the Emperor could not have forseen what would happen. With every person under the command of 18 primarchs, how could he have seen what Erebus was doing? On a side note, I believe that Erebus and that other guy are who the book refers to. They lead Lorgar down the path, and even start Horus on his downfall. Lorgar is just their Primarch, so he gets the blame. But that is just my thought.

[Jmaximum]

******************SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS****************************************** **************



I am still trying to wrap my head around how Cadia was originally a Chaos-created Colchis (Word Bearer homeworld, may have the name wrong) complete with tribal warbands on it, then later became Cadia again.
and how this led to Lorgar's first meeting with a demon, and the creation of the Gal'Vorbak.

[Wolfshade]

With the taint of the world bearers the world was raised to the ground, and thus it remained, then after the 1st Black Crusade, with Cadia being used as a staging post was resettled to provide defence to the sector. (Codex Chaos Space Marines 3rd ed).

[Jmaximum]

Ah, well.
THAT was easily explainable then.