Forge world Etiquette?

[Mr Mystery]

Hello, good evening and welcome.

Tonight, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to discuss attitudes toward the regular use of Forgeworld in games.

Now, I'm largely ambivalent on account I am an experienced player, so the occasional new thing to smash up keeps things fresh and interesting, even though I don't partake myself. Well. Not yet. Forgeworld are yet to give me lots of goodies.

But then there are the younger players. They're well used to their own army, which is often their first. A laudable achievement in itself. But when they are still needing to double check their opponents standard codex army and it's abilities, is it right and fair to include exotic resiny goodness? I mean any unusual build of army is going to be new to them, but as FW models tend to use multiple special rules, which aren't always in the rule book, does the fielder of Forge World have the advantage?

Do you feel that Forge World, although now 'game legal' should only be fielded with your opponents foreknowledge that it's going in your list?

I do have an example I could give, but I'll save that for later, as I intend, with your help to explore opinions and peccadillos in the wider community, rather than focus on any given player!

So, contribute, comment and discuss!

[ElectricPaladin]

From my experience, Forgeworld stuff is actually pretty fair. Most of it is costed for its capabilities, and none of it is bizarre or game-breaking. Furthermore, some older armies (*cough* Tau *cough*) are almost impossible to field without a Forgeworld model or two, since their current ancient codices are so anemic. I wouldn't expect an opponent to "clear" Forgeworld stuff with me before a game.

However, I do think it's best practices to be a little more clear about the capabilities of Forgeworld models during the "here's my public list" stage of a game. You know, don't just say "and this is a tank with some lascannons," the way you might about something "basic" like a Predator Annihilator. Assume I don't know what it does - because I probably don't - and walk me through it.

[Mr Mystery]

I hear you brother, and I pretty much agree.

However, as a hangover of being a Fantasy player, I'm not used to showing my list to people. But once deployed, I have no issue with letting my opponent peruse my codex and associated paraphernalia, so they can do a quick check on WYSIWYG. Again against similarly long term gamers, I can more or less tell at a glance whether a Codex army is about right points wise. But with Forgeworld? Not so much. So by letting them go over the unit entry, they can familiarise themselves with the units possible abilities, without getting to see the nasty tricks up my sleeve.

Again this mostly applies to closed list play, and stems from my playing of Fantasy, so mileage and attitudes may vary, and are welcome to do so. Despite my preference, if my opponent hands me his list, he will receive mine!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

While I'm very pro-Forgeworld, I think that if you're going to use one of their models you should definitely thoroughly explain the unit's abilities/rules/options, and even discuss its synergies so you're not gaining any surprise-advantage from using an uncommon unit (e.g.; "The Blight Drone is great for Nurgle Daemons since it provides mobility and fire support - it works very well in this Epidemus list since it can rack up a high kill-count early in the game.")

[Cpt Codpiece]

TBH most FW stuff for a standard game will be pretty standard apart from maybe a unique weapon/wargear.

to me thats no real step up from someone using a codex you do not own, yeah the basic stat lines will be in the rule book but not all of the special rules will be covered and glancing at the codex will be required....... just like FW.

as long as you are open with them when/if they ask about a certain rule or weapon, then is there really a problem? if anything it may encourage them to look at armies they may not have thought any good from their 'stock' codex *glares at tau empires codex on book case*.

[notsoevil]

Along this line, what made FW stuff "game legal". I keep seeing it mentioned, and I'm happy it is, but what changed to make it so?

[Cpt Codpiece]

quite a while ago there was a stamp/notice in the IA books.

though i dont and have never seen any issue with FW, they always have and always will be part (some people assume otherwise, but no they have always been under the GW umberella) of GW and the products were designed for GW games.

i dont think FW has ever been 'not legal' just ask other player first, just like special dudes used to be. tourneys may have imposed restrictions, but TBH i always think its just Americans who complain about whats 'legal' and whats not. i think the rest of the world is more laid back and sees the hobby for what it is a hobby based around a game.......... that we play with toy soldiers LOL

[Aegwymourn]

quite a while ago there was a stamp/notice in the IA books.

though i dont and have never seen any issue with FW, they always have and always will be part (some people assume otherwise, but no they have always been under the GW umberella) of GW and the products were designed for GW games.

i dont think FW has ever been 'not legal' just ask other player first, just like special dudes used to be. tourneys may have imposed restrictions, but TBH i always think its just Americans who complain about whats 'legal' and whats not. i think the rest of the world is more laid back and sees the hobby for what it is a hobby based around a game.......... that we play with toy soldiers LOL

"but my Lord Sidious, is that legal?"
"I will make it legal!"

sorry i couldn't resist.

back on track. I personally don't mind forgeworld models, as other people have pointed out, if the opponent take the time to give me the rundown. I have to do it almost every game since I play Tau and always field a couple of Tetras now. Most people seem to be fairly accepting of it as well. I have only had one person complain about it during a local tournament.

[Suttobs]

"but my Lord Sidious, is that legal?"
"I will make it legal!"

sorry i couldn't resist.

back on track. I personally don't mind forgeworld models, as other people have pointed out, if the opponent take the time to give me the rundown. I have to do it almost every game since I play Tau and always field a couple of Tetras now. Most people seem to be fairly accepting of it as well. I have only had one person complain about it during a local tournament.

That you Tom?

My local scene is like 30% in favor, 30% against 2-3 specific units, and 40% don't play it and don't care.

I play ultramarines 1st co. (Deathwing) with Mortis dreads. I've gotten some ribbing from guys with flyers, but no complaints.

I think FW is about as balanced as regular 40k, with the exception of HH stuff.

[Learn2Eel]

As long as you have the relevant codices and FAQs handy, just like normal armies, then I have no issue at all. If someone starts telling me some crazy rules without having the actual entry to back it up then I might say "hold on, get your book out".
I've seen stuff like that happen but I've never felt they were intentional attempts at cheating, more-so the players didn't remember too well. I've seen stuff like that even with the basic codices - a friend of mine, a regular player, thought Kharn the Betrayer had a 2+ armour save for five years!

I am actually hopeful to see more Forge World stuff in my LGS in the coming years, would really spice up the games. I'm getting bored of always facing the same kinds of Space Marines. I've even thought of adding some Forge World stuff myself, but I've never gotten around to it. Considering I am starting Tyranids, maybe a Malanthrope would be good. Another alternative would be to save up and get the Hierophant, but that wouldn't be for a very long time - like, after I have an entire Tyranid swarm built up.