Dreadclaw Assault Pod. May be seeing a FAQ coming out to bring it in line with RAI

[Daemonette666]

On another website I had a heated discussion, where no swearing or abuse was said, but it got very hot about being able to easily destroy a Titan in one round of close combat by exploiting an ability or attack such as JOTWW, or Lukas the Trickster's Temporal bomb, or Grey Knights Heroic Sacrafice. Believe me I do not want to go through that "Discussion" again.

On another thread about flyers deep striking and still counting as zooming, the Dreadclaw was mentioned and it was decided by the majority that the fluff section at the top of it s page in the IA Aeronautica did not count so it was a flier and not a drop pod in the first turn. The troops had to stay on board and only disembark from it in the next game turn.

I wanted rule clarification so emailed FW. and they sent a reply stating that it is treated like a drop pod on the turn it arrives and even said that troops disembarked in this way cold assault that turn. This caused some questions about whether they cold even legally assault after deep striking because the rules specifically state you can not. I agreed that it wold be broken, and before that reply was given had already pointed out to FW in a reply email specifically discussing the rules from the new 6th edition FAQ 1.a which says flyers can not deploy passengers on the turn they arrive, and that the fluff section is not legal and could not be used. The assault part was also mention as was a question on whether the Dreadclaw could be upgraded with Chaos Vehicle Equipment from the wargear list.

These are the 2 Email Replies for FW. They clearly state their intent for Dreadclaw was and that they intend to release a FAQ in the near future to correct this over site. I still think it should not be allowed to have the troops assault the same turn that they disembark from the Dreadclaw, but I would like it to be able to mount some of the wargear like dirge casters.

1st reply:

Hi there.

Models that are transported in a Dreadclaw may dis-embark from it on the turn that they land as per the normal rules shown in the Deepstrike section of the rulebook.

They may also assault that turn as per the Assault Vehicle rules.

On 10 December 2012 14:00, <[email protected]> wrote: --

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards, Forge World

2nd reply:

Hi there.

We have talked to our rules designers and the intention for the Dreadclaw was for it to be a normal, 'non-flyer' unit on the turn that it Deep Strikes (in essence a Drop Pod) and then after this turn it becomes a Flyer.

However, this was missed from it's rules by mistake.

This amendment will appear in a future FAQ for the Dreadclaw.

On 11 December 2012 12:30, Forge World (UK) <[email protected]> wrote: --

If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.

Regards, Forge World

I am glad they did not word the replies in the usual GW manner with comments like. "It is good to see such interest in 40k. Have you been you been enjoying the game?", etc before they get round to answering my question. FW replied in a more professional mature way to me, rather than what seemed to me to be the usual sales pitch the GW staff generally greet me with i their emails. Diverging from main reason for this post so I will get back on track.

From this it looks like the Dreadclaw will be getting a FAQ. What it will contain is anyone's guess, but the intent that Forgeworld had when they set the rules out is written in their replies and will most likely be corrected in the FAQ. This would make them a better purchase for both Apoc and normal games, even at 85 points each.

[Learn2Eel]

If Dreadclaws allow assaulting off of deep-strike.....well, let us just say that Khorne armies might just become relevant in a big way again.
That would be nuts.
Chaos tends to lack reliable means of getting their nasty combat units into an assault, relying usually on fast-moving bodyguards such as Spawn or Bikers. Imagine Kharn jumping down and assaulting from a drop pod

EDIT: Well they do take up a Fast Attack slot, so you can't take them in droves. They also don't deep strike on the first turn like regular drop pods, but instead re-roll scatter. Still.....would solve quite a few issues people have with Berzerkers, Possessed and the like.

[Daemonette666]

That is what I was thinking, and probably explains why the points cost went up from 65 to 85. Berserkers, Mark of Slaanesh CSM units, Possessed, and Dreadnoughts come into a world of their own and change the game dramatically. You still have to survive the overwatch shooting, and you can never be guaranteed you will get the dreadclaw to arrive until turn turn 4 when they automatically arrive.

I did not know they re-rolled scatter, I will have to check the rules again to find that section for my own games.

Since you can only get them as a fast attack choice, it reduces the number you can field, makes them a prime target during "the scouring" missions, and means you can not employ other fast attack choices like bikes, raptors, or fliers lie the Hell Blade, Hell Talon or Helldrake.

I am guessing that they will probably not allow the passengers to assault after deep striking for the Dreadclaw, as this becomes a game changing exception that other armies do not currently have. That being that any unit who are passenger can assault. In some armies like Blood angels, their Elite Vanguard can assault after deepstriking and can even be set up so they do not deviate, but that is one of GWs favourite armies, and only available to the the BAs elite troops, not regular or scoring units.

This change would make it so you could send in Chaos Space Marines, Berserkers ( with appropriate HQ to make them troops), Noise Marines (again with appropriate lord HQ in army), etc all of which can be sent in as part of a Dreadclaw force. Providing you get good rolls for reserves, and do not deviate off target badly you could get a sizable assault group down and take an enemy held objective.

I do not think it will be a game breaker. There are too many variables with reserve rolls, deep strike scattering/ mishaps, and because you may get the reserve units arriving piecemeal you do not have the troops/ units to overwhelm the enemy.

It might distract the enemy enough to break up their game plan or take out a nasty unit like a Space Marine devastator squad with Plasma cannons that is taking your forces apart.

Something to think about though.

[Daemonette666]

I checked the current rules -IA Aeronautica, and the previous verson from IA Apocalypse 2nd ed for the the Dreadclaw. It appears they have removed the special rule that allowed the Dreadclaw to re-roll the results of a deep strike mishap chart.

[Learn2Eel]

Yeah that's the one I meant to say, re-roll mishap not scatter.

Didn't know Dreadclaws were in the Aeronautica lol.

Agreed, not the best thing in the world but still a very useful tactic for those who aren't keen on Rhinos or foot-slogging.

[Vlad78]

....[

I am guessing that they will probably not allow the passengers to assault after deep striking for the Dreadclaw, as this becomes a game changing exception that other armies do not currently have. That being that any unit who are passenger can assault. In some armies like Blood angels, their Elite Vanguard can assault after deepstriking and can even be set up so they do not deviate, but that is one of GWs favourite armies, and only available to the the BAs elite troops, not regular or scoring units.

This change would make it so you could send in Chaos Space Marines, Berserkers ( with appropriate HQ to make them troops), Noise Marines (again with appropriate lord HQ in army), etc all of which can be sent in as part of a Dreadclaw force. Providing you get good rolls for reserves, and do not deviate off target badly you could get a sizable assault group down and take an enemy held objective.

I do not think it will be a game breaker. There are too many variables with reserve rolls, deep strike scattering/ mishaps, and because you may get the reserve units arriving piecemeal you do not have the troops/ units to overwhelm the enemy.

It might distract the enemy enough to break up their game plan or take out a nasty unit like a Space Marine devastator squad with Plasma cannons that is taking your forces apart.

Something to think about though.

The space maine Lucius dreadnought assault pod has the same ability and I feel IT IS a game breaker for games under 2000 points. You almost just point and click to kill one of your opponent key units. If it's a vehicle, it's even better even if it takes a fast atack slot and Dreads have to make a dangerous ground test before assaulting.
I stopped using it unless it's a very big brawl.

10 berzerkers able to drop and assault on your back is just broken IMHO. And you could put even worse things in it. And your opponent just can't react. What does it bring to the game tactically? nothing.

It sounds very cool but I'm not sure it will be that cool for the game at the moment. I'd rather have the like of a drop pod which can redeploy and therefore give mobility thoughout the game.

[Kevlarshark]

If the Dreadclaw was an 85 point way to gain a "heroic intervention" (think thats what the Vanguard Veteran rule is called) type rule for a chaos unit and uses up a Fast attack choice...rather than being a dedicted transport then it would be powerful but not breaking.

It would basically be just be a Storm Raven with no guns.

It would also fill that missing gap in the Chaos codex, which I still suspect lost 2-3 pages on the way to the printers!

[Learn2Eel]

Well if you believe the rumours there was a siege Land Raider planned for the codex that was dropped at the last minute.

[Caitsidhe]

I hope they do it. The Dreadclaw is expensive and comes with its own risks. I expect most CSM players (competent ones) would tool up a single assault unit for use in this manner. Still, don't hold your breath. Forge World is Games Workshop and what they tell you on one day changes the next.

[DrLove42]

Would be cool

Remember theres a marine Drop pod that allows assault of deepstrike

Biggest issue with the Dreadclaw is that it doesn't have the marine "correct your scatter" ability. If it scatters badly it scatters badly. Dangerous terrain, other units, off the table etc. The marine drop pod can correct itself if it mishaps badly