Herohammer 40K, your thoughts...

[DarkLink]

you cant get 17 attacks on the charge Asgeir. The most you can get is 10 same as any stat. 3rd non bold paragraph on pg 6 of the rule book says that "no modifier may raise any characteristic above 10 or lower it below 0".

GW says your wrong
Chaos FAQ: "Models armed with a bloodfeeder can exceed 10 attacks. Is this allowed?
A: Yes, as they are bonus attacks that only apply in that combat turn, and do not permenately modify the model's attack characteristic."
[url]http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1610178_Chaos_Space_Marines_FAQ_2008-05_Edition.pdf[/url]





I agree with Chumabalaya. I like special characters, they just need to stop making the characters effect the list layout.


Oh, and Kharne gets 6 attacks (he has a plasma pistol). That's 7 on the charge. Between the fact that he hits on 2's and wounds on 2's (on the charge), and that he doesn't have an 11/36 chance of taking an auto wound AND doing absolutely nothing that round of combat, I'd pick him over a lord with bloodfeeder.

Bloodfeeder's average number of attacks is 11 (on the charge). 3's to hit, 4's to wound means he'll put 3.666 wounds on a MEQ squad on the charge.

Kharne gets 7 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's. That's 4.86111 wounds on a MEQ squad, on the charge. He will also, statistically, cause .97 wounds on a friendly model.

If the Bloodfeeder lord even does anything at all, he has to roll very well in order to beat out Kharne. Just don't keep friendly units close to Kharne, and you're ok.
Oh, and Kharne gets 2d6 armor penetration. Bloodfeeder doesn't. Kharne laughs at Dreadnoughts, Bloodfeeder lords cry.

[MajorSoB]

SOB, if you are running the tournaments your answer is simple. Do not allow any named special characters in the tournament.

I always made fun lists up for tournaments, lists that were balanced and not cheesy. Recently I realized that the only way to deal with all the cheddar and power gaming armies at tournaments is make such a list for myself and fight fire with fire. If you want to do well in tournaments you have to level the playing field.

Honestly that is an interesting idea that I was thinking of, but the problem is that some characters are vital to certain builds like Deathwing etc. So this sets up a dilemma, do you disallow all special characters or just the ones that are deemed non essential to special builds? I dont want to set up a banned list like our card flopping friends who play Magic have but what is the solution?

[sketchesofpayne]

Go all or nothing. Special Characters or None, as far as tournaments are concerned. Sure you won't be able to field Death/Raven Wing, but that's the price you pay.

[AsgeirArnald]

Oh, and Kharne gets 6 attacks (he has a plasma pistol). That's 7 on the charge. Between the fact that he hits on 2's and wounds on 2's (on the charge), and that he doesn't have an 11/36 chance of taking an auto wound AND doing absolutely nothing that round of combat, I'd pick him over a lord with bloodfeeder.

Bloodfeeder's average number of attacks is 11 (on the charge). 3's to hit, 4's to wound means he'll put 3.666 wounds on a MEQ squad on the charge.

Kharne gets 7 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's. That's 4.86111 wounds on a MEQ squad, on the charge. He will also, statistically, cause .97 wounds on a friendly model.

If the Bloodfeeder lord even does anything at all, he has to roll very well in order to beat out Kharne. Just don't keep friendly units close to Kharne, and you're ok.
Oh, and Kharne gets 2d6 armor penetration. Bloodfeeder doesn't. Kharne laughs at Dreadnoughts, Bloodfeeder lords cry.

Forgot about his pistol.

All excellent points. But in my area, I rarely play against MEQ. And when I say rarely, I mean 2 games in my entire 7 months of playing 40k. I most commonly find myself up against orks and tau, mostly orks, and my bloodfeeder lord with his squad of berserkers destroy orks on a regular basis. That's why I prefer him, I can keep him with a squad and not worry about it. I do still enjoy playing Kharn, and I will concede that as a whole, since MEQ is incredibly common most places, he would be a better choice. And he's hilarious!

[MajorSoB]

OK to keep this moving how about this...

In Europe they had a 16 country 40K team tourney. See the link:

[URL="http://www.wh-etc.com/en/wh40k/teams"]http://www.wh-etc.com/en/wh40k/teams[/URL]

In their rules the banned the following characters:

Special/Individual Characters are allowed with an exception for:
-Ghazghkull Thraka
-Eldrad Ulthran
-Forgefather Vulkan He'stan
-Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike
-Kor'sarro Khan
-Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch
-The Masque
which are banned.(The council took the new IG codex into account for voting the ban list) .

What do you think of their list, is it inclusive enough? Is it not needed? Should we ban 'em all? Discuss please!

[deadmanwade]

So the Ultramarine characters, Pedro and Lysander were ok, but Shrike and Khan weren't?
Neither of them are game breakingly powerful. Pedro's Sternguard = Scoring ability is way more powerful than some fleeting marines.

[AsgeirArnald]

I think they should ban all SC's or none at all.

"I'm taking Abbadon, but you can't take Ghazzy! Hahahaha!!

Although Abbadon doesn't confer special rules to the whole army like the fellows on that list do. I guess that was probably their reasoning. Still doesn't make much sense to me.

[Rapture]

I really dislike special characters. I don't want to play against the same HQ all the time.

Besides, when you see someone playing with Vulkan you know they are only doing it to get the twin-linked special rule. To me it feels almost like they just want to squeeze out any advantage that they can get.

[Chumbalaya]

I am firmly against banning anything. Nothing is so powerful to warrant it and it honestly sounds like sour grapes. These guys aren't unkillable and often extremely expensive. I play DW too, so that may influence my opinion :P

There are alternatives to fielding SCs, it's not like they're the only thing you can field.
Space Marines: You want to keep combat tactics, arguably the best rule they have currently, Librarians are cheap and extremely effective, Chappies somewhat less but still useful, Biker Captains make Bikes Troops.
Chaos: Abby costs as much as a Land Raider, is he really worth it? DPs are better anyway.
Eldar: Jetseer, cheapo Autarch for reserve benefits, cheapo Seer to save points
IG: More tanks and bodies!
Orks: Pay half the points, Nobs are still Troops, but you get a good chunk more points to work with. If you mech up, losing out on 6" Waagh isn't so terrible. KFF Mek ftw.

I feel the worst for Salamanders players. They want to enjoy their formerly obscure army but bringing Vulkan automatically labels you a super cheesy powergamer from hell. Vulkan combines well to make a solid army and he's extremely fluffy for a Sallies build, how dare people field a good army :P

[sketchesofpayne]

It seems like in that tournament they banned the most popular, not the most powerful.