Daemons Rumours

[Learn2Eel]

This is a pretty big Daemons rumour compilation, I thought you guys might want to check it out Not trying to deflate Dark Angels, but no harm in looking at what is likely coming next.
Hopefully they are entirely new codices, both the WFB and WH40K codices are very old. Apparently they aren't changing too much, mostly modifications, rules tweaking and points drops/increases ala the WD update. Hopefully (40k wise) the rules for Screamers and Flamers aren't indicative of the rest of the codex. I am interested to see the new Greater Daemons, it sounds like they will be absolutely massive models. Hopefully they get better rules this time around - they are still awesome in the current 40k codex, just a bit over-costed IMO.


Via [URL="http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/chaos-daemons-release-compilation-for.html"]Faeit 212[/URL].

Most readers here know I have an opinion that goes against the grain when it comes to the rumored February's codex and army book release of Daemons. Even though its backed up by behind the scenes rumors and is directed towards 40k only, I want to move past that, because there is a ton of information floating around regarding Daemons, and In reality, it would be cool to get two 40k codices out in the first two months of the year. So lets assume I am wrong (I hope I am), and there is a double Daemon release in February.


Here is the latest and greatest regarding Chaos Daemons and the Daemons of Chaos books to be released in February. This compilation was put together by Zion over on the Horus Heresy forums. (actually note, that as far as forums go.... this is one of the few that I actually enjoy being on and reading).


Compilation via Zion over on Heresy Online
Daemon Rumours
For those who just want the quick compilation here it is (actual links and rumour postings are below the compilation for those who want to see where this is all coming from):

Writer: Jeremy Vetock (both books!) (if this is true, it might be why we haven't seen that much from him recently prior to the DA book)
Projected Release: Dual Release in Feb (primarily gathered from other rumours)

Undivided
Chaos Beast (Maybe this guy? ) Approximately Daemon Prince sized/about twice as tall as a Bloodletter
Furies getting redone. Approximately Gargoyle sized with bat wings and a number of different head options (heads are 2 section heads like the Bloodletters). Dual kit with a ground based model option as well. Plastic kit.
New Elite Daemon Engine. Approximately Dreadnought sized. Lots of options with some God-specific model bits. Rumoured to be unique to Daemons.

Khorne
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Jes Goodwin rumoured to be the one who sculpted/is sculpting the new Bloodthirster
Khorne Chariot (2 Bloodcrushers pulling something that looks like a wagon) with a Herald or some kind of new model that looks like it's belching fire.
Some kind of large flame belcher thing (maybe same as the option for the chariot?)
New Bloodthirster reportedly is a little shorter than the Dreadknight, hasn't changes too much in style though.

Tzeentch
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
New Chariot, pulled by screamers with Horrors riding it. Has an alternate Large Flamer (Pyrocastser perhaps?) rider option too.
Large Flamer (Pyrocaster perhaps? Maybe the same as the chariot character) “instead of horrors” (again, I have no idea what they mean by this, as it's an odd statement that doesn't make too much sense).
New Lord of Change is the tallest of the new Greater Daemons (not counting the wings). Apparently less hunched than before, and has a “fishy looking” option.

Slaanesh
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Plastic Fiends were in the works. Current status unknown.
New Keeper of Secrets is a whole new design, shirking the old design and the FW one for something different, but still “very Slanneshi”.

Nurgle
New Greater Daemon Model (Resin Conversion Pack to make Named Greater Daemons)
Large Base Palanquin, Nurglings, Daemon Prince Base, Fat Plague Bearer (I'm not sure what this one means, this is the actual sentence from the rumour)
New Ku'gath design?
No Blight Drone
Some kind of large Nurgle flies being ridden by Plaguebearers
New Great Unclean One reportidly the best of the new Greater Daemon options (“absolutely rot, in a good way”)

Other
Rumours of a Chaos piece of terrain, no word on if it made it past the idea stage or if it's just wishlisting.
No word of other Exalted Chariot options at this time
All models are designed for both Fantasy and 40k now
Only Characters getting models are the ones who haven't gotten one yet
Daemons update will not be a huge overhaul to the books, mostly an addition of new models (I'm guessing some rules changes, points costs and some statlines will get tweaked a bit too if the WD update is anything to go by)
New Greater Daemons looked bigger than the old ones, might be moving to a larger base size
Greater Daemons might be wave releases instead of when the book drops.

The Rumour Posts:
These are all from Warseer's Fantasy Rumour section, though from the rumurs they should also carry over to the 40k codex which is supposed to drop at the same time (if the rumours are true).

Harry on Warseer:
In an effort to pull together what few rumours we have …
I have started threads for each of the armies rumoured to be somewhere in the pipeline.
I will do my best to keep the first posts updated as more rumours appear in these threads.
I have tried to remember as much as I can of what has been posted so far.
I will have missed or forgotten some of it ... so, any rumours that have been posted please just remind me ‘who’ said ‘what’ and I will update this first post.

Daemons of Chaos:
I know we have only just had a wave of Daemons but now we have this from hastings:

Release Date:
"The daemon rules should be taken as a stepping stone to the updated book (much like the wd vc terrorgheist article) next 4 books (for both systems are all chaos (in one form or another) and will hit within 4-5 months for all of them". (Hastings).
To clarify....Books: CSM, WoC, DoC, Chaos Daemons
All will be realeased within 4-5 months of the CSM codex hitting (sep afaik) (Hastings)

So we are talking february at the latest?
Author:
Unknown

Rules:
Unknown ... Beyond those suggested by the rules booklet in the recent WD

Models:
All 4 greater Deamons will get plastic kits (with head/weapon options plus wfb/40k specific bits on sprues) and that there will be "resin conversion packs" to make "named greater Deamons". (Hastings) No idea of timescales on this. I am not expecting them to arrive together Or with this wave. (Harry)
Jes Goodwin is rumoured to be doing the Bloodthirster. (BRING IT ON! ) No timescale for this. (NatTreehouse)
Khorne chariot, two bloodcrushers pulling a wagon with herald option or some fire belching thing. Large base
Tzentch chariot, pulled by screamers, with horrors riding, but I've also heard it has a large flamer rider too. Large base
Nurgle palanquin, nurglings, daemon prince base, fat plague bearer.
4 GD with variants for named daemons and swappable options, most rumors point to resin packs, but I've heard wind its all in the plastic kits lately. I'd lean towards Harry's news, but I hope for all in one myself. I have heard that these may be moving to the larger base now, if so, they will be huge. One can hope, but I don't have a lot of confidence in this bit.
Furies (no dual kit options I've heard of.) in plastic.
Plastic fiends were being worked on at one point, but I haven't heard anything about them recently.
New elite daemon engine. 40k Dreadnought sized. Lots of options. Quasi-God specific bits like the soulgrinder. Supposedly unique to daemons not the same as this new unit for chaos space marines.(Stickmonkey)
Big khorn flame belcher thing
Tzeentch Larger flamer instead of horrors.
Sounded like more ranged options for the daemons.(Stickmonkey)

Harry:
Maybe their are just two books ... with daemons included!!!

EDIT: Although hastings is pretty clear...
To clarify....
Books.
CSM
WoC
DoC
Chaos Daemons
All will be realeased within 4-5 months of the CSM codex hitting (sep afaik)

Stickmonkey:
Quote:
There has been some chatter on a demonic terrain piece, but I'm putting it down to wishlisting for now, nothing solid. Portal? meh. Shrine? meh.

I got to see the Ku'gath designs recently. Pretty Ace. The lab is wild, with nurgling assistants. I'm looking forward to seeing it translated to a model.

No more exalted chariots...at least not that I've heard of.

I did see a design for a big unaligned chaos beast of some kind. Looked like a oversized bear with a toothy maw instead of a head. No idea if it ever went on to be a model. Probably daemon prince sized. Design had a bloodletter drawn next to it which may have been half it's height.
I'm thinking the Chaos Beasts might be based on this guy. He's about twice the height of your infantry sized models after all.

Hastings (in response to a question regarding the Blight Drone being added to the 40K codex, this was confirmed again in the Fantasy rumour thread as a valid rumour):
Quote:
Not blight drones but similar, I can see 40k players using the FW blight drones instead of the big nurgle flies ridden by plagubearers that are getting released.

Stickmonkey:
Looks like my sourcing is again off on timelines. So I'm putting in an update on it here, lots of things have changed to me since my last timeline thread. (I want to repeat, these are rumors, almost none of this really "changes" per se, GW's got their plan, I don't, I get information that aligns from a few sources and try to base what I tell you on that)

Was correct on WoC for Nov, as that's in the bag now, moving on to Dec.

Jan:
Daemons. Still on track. Vetock doing WFB and 40k books, but I havent had confirmation that the books are actually coming in Jan. Expect Greater Daemons in plastic, a couple new chariots, a new daemon engine, and a couple new characters (well...characters which have never received models) Word is the Daemons update will not be a huge overhaul to the current book. Expect few new units. But the new GD models are phenomenal, love every one of them, especially the new GUO. None of the new units are single system, everything is in both 40k and WFB now.
Obviously he was off on Jan (that is Dark Angels), but the other stuff he mentions lines up with other rumours, and he gives us an author.


StickMonkey...
I forgot about Furies. They have been redone, they are coming for Daemons, they look so much better than the current models. The question will be if their rules make them worth it. They are about Nid Gargoyle sized, maybe a bit larger. Bat wings. Much more daemonic heads with toothy maws in 2 parts like the horrors and bloodletters. Not the bat men of old. Dual kit with a new ground based daemon, much like the vargheist/crypt horrors (which I've mentioned before).

There are a lot of questions winging my way about the GD. So to try to address those:
1. I don't know for sure all 4 will be released at once or if they will be in waves.
2. I have conflicting rumors they are moved to the oval base and are roughly the size of the beastmen gorghon, vs staying on the 60mm round bases. Based on my personal eyes on on WIP before, they are bigger. The GUO was not as big as the FW model, but its bigger than a dreadnought. My source says the GUO is the best looking of the new models, that it is "absolutely rot, in a good way".
3. The BT should be slightly shorter than the dreadknight. stylewise it hasnt changed much.
4. The KoS is the most changed style wise. Does not go towards the FW model or retain the style of the current GW model. Still very slaaneshi
5. The LoC AFAIK is the tallest of the models, not just due to the wings. Did not appear as hunched as before. Head options include a more fishy looking option.

via Stickmonkey 2-6-2012

Overview and Schedule

The Chaos Daemons release slot as last time around is a dual system release, updating the repsective armies for both Warhammer 40,000, and Warhammer Fantasy. There are a large number of models to be released as well as both books, so look for it to get broken up into 2 waves at least - with the lower possibility of 3 waves.

Look for the initial wave next month, and follow up waves a quarter later. That would put the first wave in March and the followup in June. Note however that Games Workshop has this thing for releasing Daemons in August - so that second wave might slide a little.

In any case, onto the waves themselves:

Wave 1
BloodThirster/Skarbrand (plastic)
Great Unclean One (plastic)
Chariot of Khorne/Herald of Khorne/Khorne Cannonade (anyone remember the old epic Doom Blaster)
Plague Flies of Nurgle
Palanquin of Nurgle/KuGath upgrade/Herald of Nurgle
Fiend of Slaanesh

There is also word of a named Daemon Prince and several smaller finecast models as well.

via Stickmonkey 2-7-2012

This round of rumors is regarding the Second Wave, penciled in for June. Note however that Games Workshop has this thing for releasing Daemons in August - so that second wave might slide a little.

In any case, onto the waves themselves:

Wave 2
Keeper of Secrets/(Named GD of Slaanesh)
Lord of Change/Fateweaver
Furies/(Chaos ground daemons...I've heard this alternate kit unit has an "unstable" rules granting them an extra save, a 12" teleport, and a chance to lose models (determined randomly).
Hounds of Khorne
An all new Tzeentch Flyer... (NOT the Heldrake)
Chariot of Tzeentch/ Flame cannon alt kit)

via [URL="http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/17/rumor-it-releases-daemon-rules-front/"]Blood of Kittens[/URL] 2-17-2012

As most people realize Daemons will lose both Fearless and Eternal Warrior replaced with 5+ invulnerable and Fear. Eternal Warrior never really made sense in the grand scheme of things anyway because wouldn't Force Weapons be perfect to "banish" Daemons back to the War? As for Fearless, see a return of "instability" which is going to be close to 5th edition Fearless.

As I stated in a previous rumor GW is hell-bent on having each army hate something. Daemons are no different they just seem to hate themselves now.

Taking a look at the Chaos Space Marine and Warriors of Chaos books you can see where this is going. Each Chaos God units will hate a certain other god. This leads into the next rules change right in front of us. Depending on the Daemon's God it will determine the special abilities they get.

Khorne: Furious Charge

Slaanesh: Rending, Run bonus, Fleet

Tzeentch: Re-roll 1s for saves

Nurgle: Slow & Purposeful, Shrouded

Other changes that will surely happen...

Flamers and Screamers are getting nerfed, but the real big change will be Deamons having standard Deployment rules: no more Daemonic Assault.

The big reason Deamons were fast tracked has to do with Alessio Cavatore. Chatting with a few inside GW there has been an everything Alessio purge, and Daemons are the last big chunk of Alessio material left. Yeah, I know it sounds kinda petty, but it was a major impetus to get Daemons done. Daemons will still primarily be an assault based army, but that is the nature of the models having to be used both for Fantasy and 40k. That means Daemons will rely on speed to get across the board. Expect Chariots, warp portals, beasts, cavalry, jump troops to help with all this. Then there is cover saves Nurgle is the first piece of the puzzle, but just like certain Dark Angel things expect a "Clouds of Flies" to provide bonuses to cover saves all around. Chaos Space Marines and Deamons ICs will be able to join each other as long as their gods match up.

via DakkaDakka 2-18-2012

New Range Items

Warhammer: Daemons of Chaos

96 page full colour, hardback Warhammer Armies book

Codex: Chaos Daemons

· 104 page full colour, hardback Codex

Chaos Daemons: Plague Drones of Nurgle

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes three Plague Drones that are multi-posable and offer collectors a large variety when assembling them

Chaos Daemons: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch/Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch or a Herald of Tzeentch on a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch

Chaos Daemons: Blood Throne of Khorne/Skull Cannon of Khorne

This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes either a Blood Throne of Khorne or a Skull Cannon of Khorne

Herald of Nurgle

This Clampack contains a new plastic Herald of Nurgle on a sculpted base
New Finecast Releases

Herald of Khorne

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature


Herald of Slaanesh

A clampack that contains one highly detailed Citadel Finecast resin miniature


Available While Stocks Last
These Items are highly limited, please request the quantity you require and we will supply you as close to this number as we can.

Warhammer Battle Magic: Daemons of Chaos

A deck of 21 cards that contains the 6 spells for the Lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh as well as their signature spells

Psychic Powers: Chaos Daemons

A deck of 12 cards that contains the Primaris powers and 3 Psychic powers for the Lores Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle as well

via Faeit 212 2-19-2012

The Bloodthirster : 280pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
10 4 9 7 5 5 5 10 5+
Daemonic gifts: blood axe, armour of terror, whip of destruction
special rules: daemon, daemonic flight, furious charge, rage,blood without end
blood axe - user gains a previously lost wound he has lost earlier in game for every kill he makes on a 4+
armour of terror - user gains a 2+ save and 5+ invulnerable. The bearer gains a 4+ feel no pain if the weapons AP in lower than 3
whip of destruction - 12'' shooting attack - strength 8 AP 4 rending
daemon - see page 36
daemonic flight- see chaos special rules
furious charge & rage - rule book (P41&37)

Blood Without End- the Bloodthirster gains +d6 attacks on the charge and makes another strike at initiative step 1 for every wound he causes.
These extra strikes do not produce any further strikes.

Great Unclean One : 260pts
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 4 6 8 6 1 4 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: plague sword of death, bloated body, aura of decay
special rules: daemon, slow and purposeful,my master gifts all,shrouded
plague sword of death - wounds everything on 2+ with an ap of 3 - turns characters into spawn
bloated body - the daemon has a 4+ armour save and a 3+ feel no pain on any weapon AP 5 or below.
aura of decay - the great unclean one has defensive and assault grenades and causes all enemy weapons to count as -1 strength (I believe this is ranged and
close combat)

daemon - page 36
slow and purposeful - page 42
shrouded- page 41

My Master Gifts All - pick an enemy and friendly unit at the beginning of the game. The enemy unit gains -1 toughness and strength while a friendly Plaguebearers count as +1 strength and +1 to there feel no pain rolls.

TROOPS
Bloodletters: 14pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 0 5 4 1 4 2 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: blood swords (strength: user AP: 4)
special rules: daemon, furious charge,rage
unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-20

Daemonettes of Slannesh: 12pts each
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 0 4 3 1 6 2 10 6+
Daemonic gifts: rending claws
special rules: fleet, make them suffer (+1 added to strength - already included)
Unit type: infantry
Number/squad: 5-15


WARGEAR
Tzeench Gift of Betrayal -50pts (one use)
pick an enemy independent character at random, that model or unit must pass a leadership test with a -4 penalty or be removed after being sucked into the warp for tzeench amusement, models from codex: space marine, dark angels,black templars,grey knights,space wolves,blood angels take a -2 penalty instead to represent their resistance from the dark gods temptations.

Nurgle's Blessing (30pts)
pick a nurgle unit in your army, that model/unit gains +1 to their feel no pain roll.

Sword of a Thousand Souls: 45pts
the bearer must charge every enemy unit and must challenge but gain +2d6 extra attacks on the charge.

Dance of Death: 40pts
pick an enemy unit at the beginning of the game, that unit must roll a initiative test every turn of the game or is under the control of the daemon player. The unit under control may charge friendly models but cannot move off the board or into any piece of terrain that can cause hard to the model. If the enemy passes the initiative test more than three times during the battle then the dance has been removed for the remainder of the game.

And Prices...

40K: Codex Chaos Daemons $49.50
WFB: Daemons of Chaos Army Book $49.50
WFB: Chaos Daemons Battalion/Battleforce $115.00
WFB: Burning Chariot of Tzeentch $40.00
WFB: Plague Drones of Nurgle $60.00
WFB: Blood Throne of Khorne $40.00
WFB: Herald of Nurgle $25.00


via Faeit 212 2-25-2012

Daemonic: Instability
If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by.

Daemons count as being fearless for shooting.

Heralds:
Have +1 to WS, W, I, A and have Ld: 9-10
If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not affected by daemonic Instability

Armor Saves:
All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save.
There are upgrades to give Heralds 3+ and even a 2+ save (very expensive)

Greater Daemons:
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Keeper of Secrets -
Base A:6, rending, and gain more attacks for every kill.

Bloodthirster - has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re-rolls all failed to hit and to wound.

Fateweaver -
Can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerable save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armor saves)

Basic Daemons:
Bloodletters – reduced by 1 point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points , are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points, shrouding replaces feel no pain.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points, improved saves.

Other Daemons:
Bloodcrushers are monstrous beasts with rage. (very expensive)
Beast of Nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by over 30 points.
Soulgrinder has skyfire in profile (220pts base)

Psychic Powers: Are very random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

[DrLove42]

Hmmm. Deamons.

[eldargal]

New Keeper of Secrets is a whole new design, shirking the old design and the FW one for something different, but still “very Slanneshi”.

Glistening devils dumplings, as far as the eye can see...

[Wolfshade]

This is a little left field. As in I was not expecting to hear this. But then didn't they have a WD codex not so long ago?

[eldargal]

It's not that left field, we've known daemons were not far off for a while.

[Wildeybeast]

This is a pretty big Daemons rumour compilation, I thought you guys might want to check it out Not trying to deflate Dark Angels, but no harm in looking at what is likely coming next.
Hopefully they are entirely new codices, both the WFB and WH40K codices are very old. Apparently they aren't changing too much, mostly modifications, rules tweaking and points drops/increases ala the WD update. Hopefully (40k wise) the rules for Screamers and Flamers aren't indicative of the rest of the codex. I am interested to see the new Greater Daemons, it sounds like they will be absolutely massive models. Hopefully they get better rules this time around - they are still awesome in the current 40k codex, just a bit over-costed IMO.

They are called army books in Warhammer.

[DrLove42]

I'd hardly call the WD update a codex.

[Wolfshade]

I'd hardly call the WD update a codex.

No, what I was thinking that was the time between the BA WD codex and the BA Codex wasn't that bad and it gave hints towards the design view

[Mr Mystery]

Interesting....

As you might have noticed, I'm normally highly sceptical of rumours, regardless of source. However....

1. Nothing too outlandish in there. At all.
2. Description of the models helps credibility.

Very interesting.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I am really looking forward to seeing the new greater daemon models.