New Players, Conversions and Chaos

[Sign Ahead]

My local gaming hub has started running 500-point, 40-minute games of Warhammer 40K. Seems like a good time from me to try the game out, but before I do, I have a few questions.

What armies have lots of room for conversions?
I’m more of a model-builder and painter than a player. When I do play, it’s usually Warmachine, which is pretty strict about the conversions. Since WH40K is a lot more accommodating, I want to take advantage of it.

I’m thinking Orks (so many bodged-together vehicles, weapons and suits of armor), Chaos Space Marines (mutations, mutations, mutations) or Imperial Guard (lots of vehicles, lots of kits, and lots of models — great for building little scenes, mixing & matching kits, and covering the vehicles with supplies, battle damage, & field repairs). Right now, Chaos is my first choice. What else am I missing? And how far can I go before it becomes a problem?

Assuming I go with Chaos Space Marines, is the Dark Vengeance box a good place to start?
The models look great. Are they useful too?

For troops, can I use loyalist marines in place of Chaos Space Marines?
I want my basic troopers to look pretty much unspoiled (especially in the horns and tusks department). That way the army has a broad spectrum of mutation, from “unspoiled recruit” to “dear God! What is that thing!!??!”

If I do use loyalist marines, how would I handle that?
I’m not too familiar with the fluff. Are there Chaos Marines who pretend to be loyalists? Newly-converted marines who haven’t been visibly twisted by chaos? What if I want to use loyalist armor, but Chaos markings? What marks do I need to alter on the loyalist armor? Are the skulls and eagles specifically tied to the empire?

Thanks for your help!

[mysterex]

What armies have lots of room for conversions?

Both Orks and CSM have good scope for conversions - I've got both and do more modelling than playing these days.

Assuming I go with Chaos Space Marines, is the Dark Vengeance box a good place to start?

The models look great. Are they useful too?

Not really, IMO the cultists are the most useful bit although some of the chosen could make good squad leaders.

For troops, can I use loyalist marines in place of Chaos Space Marines?

Yes but it's probably better top mix a few CSM parts into each model. Also remove most of the loyalist iconography, i.e. aquilas on the chest plates etc. I've probably got a 40% mix of loyalist parts in with my chaos marines.

If I do use loyalist marines, how would I handle that?
I’m not too familiar with the fluff. Are there Chaos Marines who pretend to be loyalists?

According to some of the older background the Alpha Legion were well known for passing themselves off as loyalist marines. You could do this by using entirely loyalist marines and then giving them either the Alpha Legion shoulder pads or putting the legion's transfers to SM pads. Just make sure that you don't give them equipment that CSM don't get (like plasma cannons).

[Kevin48220]

I think you can find room for conversion and painting fun in most any army. I play Codex Space Marines, which are about as generic as it gets, but I've done a good amount of conversions for my army. This was mostly converting regular tactical marines into specialized units, like Damned Legionnaires and Sternguard (who have expensive kits), but I also did a lot of conversions to make the various wargear options for my armored vehicles, Dreadnoughts, and special weapons I didn't want to drop the coin for.

I'm still a bit new to 40K (only been in for a year or so now), but I will say that going with Chaos Marines will mean fewer models than if you go with Orks or IG, which are more horde-like armies. Chaos Marines are more elite, so you'll have fewer models on the board for the same points. I don't know if that matters to you or not, but it's something to consider in regard to the cost of putting together the army.

Bottom line (and you no doubt already know this from doing a WM army), you have to like modelling and painting the pieces, b/c you'll be doing a lot of them, no matter what you pick. Go with something you like the look and feel of. If you can, maybe look through Lexicanum (lexicanum.com) for info on the armies, that site has a lot of the fluff and background stuff.

[BatMarine]

Another nice thing about your choices is that Chaos Marines can ally with Orks, so why not both? Not to mention you get Daemons as Battle Brothers, which are of course also excellent for conversions (even that would normally not make any sense at all)

[Turfhead]

I used the Dark Vengance set to get started on an alpha legion/nurgle army and it worked pretty good. Downside is that the models are mostly put together in one or two big pieces, so it takes a lot more work with the hobby knife and greenstuff to customize. Nice bit is you can have a 1300 point force and a portable copy of the rulebook for 100 bucks.

For customization, a lot of the dark angels insignias are engraved on shoulder pads and backpacks so removing that is a pain. But if it wasn't a challenge why would we bother. Drill some holes and add tentacles and you take even the most loyalist marine and make him a bit dodgy looking.

[miteyheroes]

The Red Corsairs might be a good army for you? They have only fairly recently fallen to Chaos, and are often getting their ranks swelled by new converts who are fed up with the hypocrasy of the Imperium. So more unspoilt armour for new converts, DV style full on mad models for the original core members.

[Hunter]

that's sort of what i did with my first dark vengeance box , i converted almost everything to the worship of Nergule , the chosen i used as aspiring champion squad leaders , the dark angle squat i cut in to , with LGS and acrylic putty , i turned them in to convincing plague marines " Csm vehicle sprue is a great source for spikes".
I converted 3 termies in to Nurgal cult termis and oblits as well as most of the bikes

The libby on the other hand i cut in half and put him on a bike for mobile psyker fire power , the capt on the other hand , i used the head on an other mini and am saving the rest for future project .

But that's not all

In the sprin am planing to get an other "vengance box" , why well with the new Dark angle dex out am tempted to do play it but am in no mood to do an other full army , after much pondering i dreamed up a cmpermise.

I call them the scrap wardens/Rusty angles .

Am still working on names and background fluff nut here is a condensed vers of what i came up with so far .

A dark Angel hunting company perusing thew quarry got caught by a warp eddy and where marooned on a world entirely made of compressed Hulkes .

The entire system is apparently made of the stuff that got sucked in to the warp and spat out in to what is essentially a stable pocket in between warpstorms and real space , nearly impossible to navigate in and out of.

"loyalist" and "trator" had to join forces to defend themselves against assaults fro crazed orks and mecha demons .

The Deathwing Commander intended to execute there "traitor" allies but was stopped at the last moment "with a bolter round to the head from his second in command".
Joining together for mutual survival and pooling resources the built them selves a power base , offering there protection to other inhabitants and survivors of the scapworld , building up food and water production , craft shops and industries , scrapworld being a treasure trove of arktech.
They welcomed all who seek to contribute , the renegade , the mutant and even the alien , they leaned how to suppress the horrors from the war and tame the mecha demons .
At some point they built themselves some short ranged space crafts to explore and patrol the rest of the crap system , while the warp usually spat out something hostile it occasionally ejected wayward travelers .

The Chapter name Scarp Wardens comes from an engagement with ork warboss Spleenmuncha , as he demanded who was kicking his butt , they declared "we are the wardens of the scrapyard" .

At currant , the scarp wardens benefit from an ecliptic pool of talent and resources , from rescued servants of the AddMech to darker sources .
Recruitment comes from two sources ,adopting in to the chapter other lost marines in to the fold as well as induction of suitable human candidates .

Beliefs , With the chapter being composed of so many different sources , theologies are openly discuses and mutually respected with a general consensus accepted among the marines .
Chapter Rights and devotions to the emperor are open and inclusive with outsiders invited to participate.
Concerning followers of chaos , Officially one of the requirements for joining the Scrap wardens is rejection and deounciation of the dark gods , that being said , the wardens have been known to be somewhat tolerant as long as the marine contributes positively and isn't disruptive with the individual being encouraged to participate in the chapter's devotion , Open worship of chaos is forbidden "or strongly discouraged" , being caught in secret implies severe penalties .

The wardens successfully established a line of communication whit in and beyond the scrap system charting safe paths to outside space.
As they cannot rejoin the imperium with out sanction the Wardens stay behind to patrol the scape system and beyond , rescuing the lost from the grip of hostile forces to return them when ever possible to there own and do defend there corner of space from the horrors from beyond.

The wardens have a difficult relationship with the empire , they have fought along imperial forces as friends and allies as well as enemies , the so called scrap system while valuable would not be tactically viable to conquer and impossible to to hold , on the other hand the Wardens have welcome rogue traders and AdMech expeditions , providing escort and facilities .
At currant somewhat ignores the Scrap Wardens as they do provide a service to the emperium , The Dark Angle chapter on the other hand see the wardens as a credible threat to be dealt with .

[Warptiger]

Definitely go with chaos, it wins hands down.

You have all those themes to work with: brutal Khorne armies, nurglesque zombies, refined and elegant slaaneshi armies, ornate and baroque tzeentch armies. And then you can ignore all of that background and just make your own up.

Orks are a lot of fun too, but they have limits. You start putting batwings and tentacles on your orks and people give you such funny looks. Seriously though, there are almost no limits with chaos at all. You imagine it, you can make it. And yes, there is a point where you can take it too far. I stepped away from an apocalypse game once, just to use the restroom, and brought the entire game to a standstill. When I got back they were all clustered at my end of the table, and when I walked up they said "we know it's all chaos, but what the hell are they?". They literally couldn't figure out what unit types they were. At this point, I literally cannot make a stock figure if I had to save my life. They all get converted.


The chaos models in the dark vengeance are awesome. They're useful, though hellbrutes (the dreadnought) seem to be less popular now. I wouldn't spend time converting the dark angels though. Not saying it couldn't be done... just trade them to another player for something you can convert more easily.


You can totally mix loyalist parts with chaos. Chapters fall to chaos all the time, sometimes individual marines, or entire chapters. Plus, the chaos chapters salvage and scavenge armor bits from the battlefield.


And yes, if you wanted to have almost vanilla looking loyalists who are secretly chaos, there's a chapter that would totally work with that concept: Alpha Legion

They're a first founding legion, and they pride themselves on big picture strategy, deception, and covert activities. The alpha legion seems to be one of the few chaos legions that seems to think beyond "kill kill kill". They infiltrate the imperium constantly, set up secret bases, pro-chaos covens and cults, and all kinds of sneaky ninja stuff. They can spend a 100 years laying the groundwork, spreading chaos cults through a system, and then in one night create an uprising that kills hundreds of millions... and then they just fade away. The alpha legion always has a plan. They could totally impersonate a loyal chapter if this fit into those plans.

[Sign Ahead]

Thank you, all!

After reading your responses and doing some research of my own, I’m going to go with Alpha Legion. The fluff’s a good fit for my painting and modeling goals. I really like the hydra theme, and the blue and green color scheme. The scaly texture that pops up on a few of the miniature photographs ought to make a great unifying theme. And, as a bonus, the GW store has fantastic Alpha-Legion shoulder pads.

One more question: is it likely that we will see more models like the ones in Dark Vengeance? I really, REALLY like the detailing on the Dark Vengeance Chosen models, and I’d love to get my hands on a Chosen kit with all the trimmings…the kind GW has made for many of the loyalist chapters.

[The Madman]

One more question: is it likely that we will see more models like the ones in Dark Vengeance? I really, REALLY like the detailing on the Dark Vengeance Chosen models, and I’d love to get my hands on a Chosen kit with all the trimmings…the kind GW has made for many of the loyalist chapters.

most likely however, the timing is not certain, they can turn up at any time.